Conversation with Fasholy and Dan (2026)

2hr long convo with stickman and fash

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Transcript (auto-generated): Stickmandan and fasholy convo, with pixel, widdle kitty, and kans in the backround.txt

100:00:27SPEAKER_05You going to sleep?

200:00:29SPEAKER_05Can you stand up still?

300:00:33SPEAKER_05By the way, he would know me if I joined you, so.

400:00:37SPEAKER_06I know.

500:00:38SPEAKER_05Obviously.

600:00:39SPEAKER_05Yeah.

700:00:40SPEAKER_06Alright, guys.

800:00:40SPEAKER_06It's game time.

900:00:45SPEAKER_06Good luck and God bless you.

1000:01:33SPEAKER_03Hello.

1100:01:37SPEAKER_06It's a nice house you got here.

1200:01:40SPEAKER_03Thanks.

1300:01:41SPEAKER_03It's my home world.

1400:01:42SPEAKER_03I love it.

1500:01:45SPEAKER_03Just waiting.

1600:01:50SPEAKER_02Oh, what you waiting for?

1700:01:55SPEAKER_02So I set this up for my European brothers and sisters in Christ to come and just pray.

1800:02:03SPEAKER_02at this time on this day after I'm done working typically.

1900:02:07SPEAKER_02So, um, yeah.

2000:02:11SPEAKER_02So I kind of just set it up.

2100:02:13SPEAKER_02We like typically there, well, like three or four of them are, um, on staff at, uh, for Christ alone.

2200:02:24SPEAKER_02So we pray together about our communities that we're serving and, um, pray for each other and what we're,

2300:02:33SPEAKER_06We met in Loving Faith, right?

2400:02:39SPEAKER_02Yes.

2500:02:40SPEAKER_02We probably did.

2600:02:41SPEAKER_05Okay.

2700:02:44SPEAKER_06Yeah, I just saw you're a Christian.

2800:02:46SPEAKER_06Kind of wanted to come say hi.

2900:02:48SPEAKER_06See what's going on.

3000:02:50SPEAKER_06For sure.

3100:02:51SPEAKER_06Can I ask you some questions?

3200:02:56SPEAKER_06Okay.

3300:02:57SPEAKER_06How long have you been a Christian?

3400:03:01SPEAKER_06Pretty much my whole life.

3500:03:02SPEAKER_06Oh, okay.

3600:03:08SPEAKER_06So, like, your whole life?

3700:03:09SPEAKER_06Like, you've been a Christian your whole life?

3800:03:13SPEAKER_02Not my whole life.

3900:03:15SPEAKER_02Like, not choosing to, you know, knowing the gospel, knowing what Christ did for me.

4000:03:21SPEAKER_02I didn't necessarily know that right away.

4100:03:25SPEAKER_02Or to trust in what he did for me right away.

4200:03:28SPEAKER_02But...

4300:03:32SPEAKER_02You know, I was healed of cancer when I was two.

4400:03:36SPEAKER_02And so that led me to believe God exists, that he is good, and that he has a plan for my life.

4500:03:43SPEAKER_02So I knew that from a very young age, believed that.

4600:03:49SPEAKER_02Then learned about Jesus, believed that.

4700:03:53SPEAKER_02There was details I didn't fully understand, but, you know.

4800:03:59SPEAKER_02Are you like a teacher?

4900:04:03SPEAKER_02Depends.

5000:04:05SPEAKER_02Depends.

5100:04:06SPEAKER_06Do you like ministry work?

5200:04:09SPEAKER_06I love encouraging people in their faith and sharing the gospel with people.

5300:04:14SPEAKER_06Could you share the gospel with me?

5400:04:16SPEAKER_06What do you think the gospel is?

5500:04:22SPEAKER_03Well, I share it as a story.

5600:04:28SPEAKER_02So I can share with you the story that I share with everybody.

5700:04:32SPEAKER_02Okay.

5800:04:32SPEAKER_02If you like.

5900:04:33SPEAKER_02Yeah.

6000:04:37SPEAKER_02Okay.

6100:04:40SPEAKER_02So, God made us in his image.

6200:04:44SPEAKER_02We are his greatest creation.

6300:04:48SPEAKER_02We are his masterpiece.

6400:04:53SPEAKER_02We are precious in his eyes.

6500:04:55SPEAKER_02When he made us, he wanted us.

6600:05:00SPEAKER_02He wanted us when he made us.

6700:05:02SPEAKER_02Every single one of us, he wanted us.

6800:05:05SPEAKER_02He doesn't make mistakes.

6900:05:09SPEAKER_02Because we were made in his image, we were meant to glorify God and to have a relationship with him.

7000:05:18SPEAKER_02This is what he wanted.

7100:05:20SPEAKER_02To glorify God is to love God with everything we have and to love one another as we would love ourselves.

7200:05:29SPEAKER_03Now, we don't do that.

7300:05:33SPEAKER_02And we get the world we live in today,

7400:05:35SPEAKER_02because we don't do that.

7500:05:38SPEAKER_02To exemplify how much we don't do it, if we lie to people, we don't love them in that moment.

7600:05:44SPEAKER_02If we steal from people, we don't love them in that moment.

7700:05:50SPEAKER_02If we lust after a person, we objectify that person as a source of pleasure for ourselves, and we objectify ourselves,

7800:06:02SPEAKER_02because we expect other people to look at us the same way.

7900:06:07SPEAKER_03And so, we don't love them or ourselves when we lust this way.

8000:06:14SPEAKER_02If we hate someone, we commit murder in the heart, according to the Bible.

8100:06:22SPEAKER_02We certainly don't love someone if we hate them.

8200:06:27SPEAKER_02If we take God's name in vain, or don't have him first in our lives, we don't love him.

8300:06:33SPEAKER_02And he's the one who gave us life.

8400:06:35SPEAKER_02Gave us our friends and family, all these wonderful things.

8500:06:39SPEAKER_03Yet we don't love him.

8600:06:41SPEAKER_03We don't care about him.

8700:06:43SPEAKER_03And we don't have him first.

8800:06:49SPEAKER_03Now, if God were to judge us for these things, we don't deserve a reward for what we have done.

8900:07:00SPEAKER_03We deserve justice for what we have done.

9000:07:05SPEAKER_03but God does something for us to make us right with him.

9100:07:11SPEAKER_03God chooses to come down as a baby 2,000 years ago and suffer temptation, persecution, betrayal, torture, and ultimately he dies.

9200:07:29SPEAKER_03He takes the justice that we deserve,

9300:07:34SPEAKER_03on himself to forgive us for everything we've done.

9400:07:44SPEAKER_02Not only does he forgive us, but it says in John 1, 12 through 13, for all who do receive him that believe in his name, they are given the right to become children of God.

9500:08:01SPEAKER_03We're not born of the flesh.

9600:08:03SPEAKER_03nor of the will of man, but of God.

9700:08:09SPEAKER_03So God doesn't just forgive you.

9800:08:11SPEAKER_03He adopts you as his son.

9900:08:15SPEAKER_03When he becomes your father, you will be my brother, and all those who believe will be your brothers and sisters in Christ.

10000:08:32SPEAKER_03This is the good news.

10100:08:34SPEAKER_03That God loves you so much that he would die for you to forgive you and adopt you as his own.

10200:08:48SPEAKER_03Hmm.

10300:08:50SPEAKER_02And I tell people this as well, the main reason that I believe.

10400:08:56SPEAKER_02There is evidence for the Bible being true.

10500:09:01SPEAKER_02Good arguments for God.

10600:09:03SPEAKER_02good arguments for Jesus' resurrection and evidence of that.

10700:09:07SPEAKER_02But the main reason I believe is because this is the single greatest love on the face of this earth.

10800:09:14SPEAKER_02It does not exist in another religion, not in another person, not in another philosophy, only in Jesus Christ.

10900:09:32SPEAKER_06How do you receive Jesus?

11000:09:37SPEAKER_02You choose to trust in what he did for you on the cross.

11100:09:41SPEAKER_02Put your trust in what he did, his work, to forgive you of your sins.

11200:09:50SPEAKER_03And if somebody doesn't do that, where would they go?

11300:09:54SPEAKER_02They would go to hell, separate from God, because God will not force them to be with him.

11400:10:02SPEAKER_02To be accepted by God, you must accept him.

11500:10:08SPEAKER_02That's why it says, for all who do receive him, who believe in his name.

11600:10:20SPEAKER_06So it's all about what Jesus did on the cross?

11700:10:24SPEAKER_00Correct.

11800:10:26SPEAKER_06So does somebody need to be a good person in order to go to heaven?

11900:10:30SPEAKER_06Correct.

12000:10:34SPEAKER_02No, they don't have to be a quote-unquote good person.

12100:10:38SPEAKER_02No one is good.

12200:10:39SPEAKER_02We all do wrong things, even after we accept Christ.

12300:10:44SPEAKER_03Hmm.

12400:10:51SPEAKER_03Does our actions matter after that?

12500:10:52SPEAKER_03Of course they do.

12600:10:58SPEAKER_03We shouldn't do these things.

12700:11:00SPEAKER_02We should love each other.

12800:11:02SPEAKER_02We should love... We should...

12900:11:03SPEAKER_02Respond accordingly to Christ's love for us.

13000:11:07SPEAKER_02Not because we have to, but because we want to.

13100:11:10SPEAKER_02Because we love him.

13200:11:12SPEAKER_03For what he did for us.

13300:11:15SPEAKER_03Because of his love.

13400:11:25SPEAKER_06So to be saved, somebody just needs to fully trust that Jesus died for them.

13500:11:32SPEAKER_06Yes.

13600:11:35SPEAKER_06And so there's nothing else required?

13700:11:39SPEAKER_03No.

13800:11:42SPEAKER_06What if somebody is thinking that there might be?

13900:11:47SPEAKER_03They would be mistaken.

14000:11:51SPEAKER_06So, like, if their trust is... What if they're, like, they're trusting in Jesus, but they're also trusting in, like, their good deeds?

14100:12:00SPEAKER_06Would they go to heaven?

14200:12:01SPEAKER_06It's like they think, like, their faith, like, and their...

14300:12:04SPEAKER_06being good goes to heaven?

14400:12:07SPEAKER_06Like, they'll go to heaven?

14500:12:08SPEAKER_06What if they think that?

14600:12:10SPEAKER_06Would they still go?

14700:12:27SPEAKER_03They would be mistaken.

14800:12:33SPEAKER_06Would they go to heaven, or would they...

14900:12:35SPEAKER_06would they still get to go to heaven if they're mistaken?

15000:12:47SPEAKER_02If they think on judgment day that they will give a list of their good deeds to God to justify them of their sins, to justify them to get to heaven, they will be turned away.

15100:12:59SPEAKER_06Because I have a lot of like...

15200:13:05SPEAKER_06Catholic friends and they believe that.

15300:13:07SPEAKER_06Like, do you think they'll still go to heaven?

15400:13:11SPEAKER_02Do you think that they will give a... Do you think that they're going to give a laundry list of things that they did to justify themselves before God?

15500:13:19SPEAKER_02Or do you think they're going to trust on Jesus when they face God?

15600:13:23SPEAKER_06Well, like, have you ever, like, read the Catholic catechisms and, like, what they teach and stuff?

15700:13:30SPEAKER_06Yes, I'm aware.

15800:13:31SPEAKER_06Yeah.

15900:13:32SPEAKER_06Like, so they actually think that, like...

16000:13:34SPEAKER_06commandment keeping and like going to church every Sunday like mass or whatever or like taking a part of the Eucharist like water baptism I think all of these things are like all these sacraments and traditional things that they do is like a means by which they can take hold of grace if they're believing that like would they still go to heaven hmm

16100:14:07SPEAKER_03If they are trusting in Jesus' sacrifice.

16200:14:13SPEAKER_06But that's my question.

16300:14:16SPEAKER_06If that's what they're trusting in, is that trusting in Jesus?

16400:14:21SPEAKER_06If they have no trust in Jesus, they're going to hell.

16500:14:25SPEAKER_06Right.

16600:14:26SPEAKER_06So how much trust is it?

16700:14:27SPEAKER_06Is it fully trusting in Jesus or like... Is it like...

16800:14:33SPEAKER_06yeah you can trust in jesus but still be mistaken about these things and think these things give you salvation but like like what do you mean i believe in god's mercy and grace and trusting in jesus's sacrifice

16900:14:59SPEAKER_02if they trust in his sacrifice, if they say, I cannot get there without him.

17000:15:07SPEAKER_02So they would say that.

17100:15:09SPEAKER_06But then they would.

17200:15:10SPEAKER_02That's good.

17300:15:11SPEAKER_06Yeah.

17400:15:12SPEAKER_06That's good that they do so.

17500:15:13SPEAKER_06But then they would say that the means by which they take hold of that is through commandment, keeping, going to mass every Sunday, you know, Eucharist.

17600:15:23SPEAKER_06Right.

17700:15:24SPEAKER_06If they're like, yeah, it's grace, but they think those actions are what gets them grace, would they still be saved?

17800:15:32SPEAKER_06Because to me, that sounds like to me that they're trusting not in Jesus, but those things to get Jesus.

17900:15:42SPEAKER_03So would they be saved?

18000:16:10SPEAKER_02You know, when I share the message, the gospel, in front of a Catholic or an Orthodox or any other denomination who believes in Jesus, they all say amen.

18100:16:24SPEAKER_02They say amen.

18200:16:27SPEAKER_02They don't add to that.

18300:16:29SPEAKER_02They agree with the message, yes.

18400:16:31SPEAKER_02So they would agree with, like...

18500:16:34SPEAKER_02Well, like, what sounds like... Everything I said, they would agree with.

18600:16:40SPEAKER_02Well, it sounds like...

18700:16:41SPEAKER_06So, like, you would agree then with, like, the faith alone?

18800:16:47SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.

18900:16:48SPEAKER_06Right, because, like, when I talk to my Catholic friends and I'm like, hey, it's by faith alone, they're like, no.

19000:16:55SPEAKER_06Right, they get triggered.

19100:16:56SPEAKER_06They don't say that.

19200:16:57SPEAKER_06I get it.

19300:16:58SPEAKER_06Right, they get triggered, yes.

19400:17:00SPEAKER_06And, like...

19500:17:01SPEAKER_06And is just believing that Jesus is Lord sufficient for salvation?

19600:17:14SPEAKER_06What do you mean by Jesus is Lord?

19700:17:16SPEAKER_06Like if somebody professes Jesus is Lord, right?

19800:17:19SPEAKER_06So they believe Jesus is Lord.

19900:17:21SPEAKER_06Jesus is God.

20000:17:23SPEAKER_06Jesus is King.

20100:17:25SPEAKER_06Is that sufficient enough to be saved?

20200:17:29SPEAKER_06Well, we need to find out what they mean by that.

20300:17:32SPEAKER_06That's all.

20400:17:33SPEAKER_06Like, they believe that Jesus is God, that he's Lord, that they believe that he's God.

20500:17:40SPEAKER_06Is that sufficient enough to save them?

20600:17:45SPEAKER_02Again, like, I would need to find out what that means to them.

20700:17:49SPEAKER_06Well, it's like what I just described.

20800:17:50SPEAKER_06Because a lot of people would profess, like, yeah, Jesus is Lord.

20900:17:54SPEAKER_06Would you say that they're saved if they profess Jesus is God?

21000:17:59SPEAKER_02Well, I need to know if they actually know about the sacrifice and if they're trusting the sacrifice at all.

21100:18:05SPEAKER_03Right.

21200:18:12SPEAKER_02I think it's unfair or unrighteous.

21300:18:15SPEAKER_02It's right for us to correct, right?

21400:18:17SPEAKER_02To have the conversation.

21500:18:20SPEAKER_02But I think it's unfair to say they're going to hell if they're trusting in the sacrifice, even a little bit.

21600:18:29SPEAKER_06Well, before you were like, somebody needs to fully trust in his sacrifice and that alone.

21700:18:36SPEAKER_06So is it just like trusting a little bit in the sacrifice or like fully?

21800:18:43SPEAKER_06Like, which is it?

21900:18:43SPEAKER_00Well, there's a seed of faith that might be able to grow.

22000:18:47SPEAKER_00Sorry to interrupt.

22100:18:48SPEAKER_06Yeah.

22200:18:49SPEAKER_06It's okay.

22300:18:50SPEAKER_06Yeah.

22400:18:51SPEAKER_06But like, so like, but what would you say?

22500:18:53SPEAKER_06Is it...

22600:18:54SPEAKER_06fully trusting in Christ's sacrifice or is it sufficient enough to just trust a little bit in Christ's sacrifice and a little bit in like Eucharist and you know keeping commandments and all that stuff like which one is sufficient to save even a little bit of trust in the sacrifice is enough so you don't have to fully trust in Christ it's just a little bit

22700:19:28SPEAKER_03If you, let me, it's, what am I trying to say?

22800:19:34SPEAKER_02Getting, going around, telling these people that they're going to hell, even though they're trusting in Jesus' sacrifice.

22900:19:45SPEAKER_02They are.

23000:19:48SPEAKER_02All of them trust in his sacrifice to forgive them of their sins.

23100:19:54SPEAKER_02They're not trying to work to get forgiveness of their sins.

23200:19:59SPEAKER_02Not one of them is trying to do that.

23300:20:03SPEAKER_06Well, wouldn't you say that having to go to a priest in a confessional booth and having to do penance is actually, wouldn't that be doing those things under your own power and under the power of man, trying to get forgiveness of sin?

23400:20:28SPEAKER_06through man wouldn't that be like wouldn't that because like when i talk to my catholic friends that they describe that's actually how they get their sins forgiven and so like okay well i would i would have to ask them what they think of jesus's sacrifice and what was the point yeah and so but that's my question is like hypothetically like if somebody was trusting in that with with that and but they still

23500:20:57SPEAKER_06had a general idea of what Jesus did, is that sufficient enough to save them?

23600:21:03SPEAKER_06Or does it need to be fully Jesus?

23700:21:06SPEAKER_02I need to know if they're trusting Jesus' sacrifice.

23800:21:11SPEAKER_02Because, generally speaking, a Catholic, right, getting them to leave their denomination completely or to abandon their theology or whatever is very difficult.

23900:21:26SPEAKER_02Right?

24000:21:28SPEAKER_02So to tell them to run from the denomination completely and utterly, I get it because it is Jesus, it is heaven and all this, and it's important, right?

24100:21:46SPEAKER_02But asking them to run from it is very difficult.

24200:21:50SPEAKER_02And so I would be more focused on their trust in Jesus.

24300:21:57SPEAKER_02And I would also talk to them about their identity in Christ because this is another piece to the puzzle that really messes with them.

24400:22:06SPEAKER_02Also, if they say that they need to repent of their sins, I'd ask them, well, do you agree all of your sins are wrong?

24500:22:14SPEAKER_02And, you know, because every believer in Christ will say all their sins are wrong.

24600:22:20SPEAKER_02They wouldn't try to make excuses for that.

24700:22:24SPEAKER_02So there's some nuances here.

24800:22:29SPEAKER_06when it comes to these things.

24900:22:30SPEAKER_06What if they believe, like, their water baptism saves them?

25000:22:36SPEAKER_06Like, that, yeah, Jesus died on the cross, but to receive that, they need to get water baptized.

25100:22:41SPEAKER_06And if they're, like, believing that, do you think they'll be saved?

25200:22:47SPEAKER_03Um...

25300:22:56SPEAKER_03Uh...

25400:22:58SPEAKER_03Hmm.

25500:22:59SPEAKER_06Because, like, don't all Catholics, like, believe that?

25600:23:05SPEAKER_06Isn't that, like, what they teach?

25700:23:06SPEAKER_00Well, I thought there was Catholic teachings that you could save someone even after they're dead.

25800:23:11SPEAKER_00And they might not have been ever baptized.

25900:23:14SPEAKER_06But, like, do you see my question, Dan?

26000:23:17SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.

26100:23:18SPEAKER_06Yeah.

26200:23:18SPEAKER_06So, like, what do you think?

26300:23:20SPEAKER_06Do you think they'd still be saved?

26400:23:22SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.

26500:23:32SPEAKER_03If there's trusting in Jesus' sacrifice.

26600:23:37SPEAKER_06Right, but if they think that their baptism saves them, would you say that that's trusting in Jesus' sacrifice still?

26700:23:46SPEAKER_06If they think their baptism saves them?

26800:23:51SPEAKER_02If they have no trust in Jesus' sacrifice, then no.

26900:23:55SPEAKER_02Their baptism means nothing.

27000:23:57SPEAKER_02It's worthless.

27100:23:58SPEAKER_06Right, but that's what they're thinking.

27200:24:00SPEAKER_06That's what they're believing.

27300:24:01SPEAKER_06Would they still be saved if they believe that?

27400:24:05SPEAKER_02I'm not entirely sure that that is necessarily what they think.

27500:24:10SPEAKER_02Well, I've spoken to many Catholics.

27600:24:13SPEAKER_02We're speaking about people who aren't in the room.

27700:24:17SPEAKER_06Well, all the Catholic friends that I've...

27800:24:20SPEAKER_06and all the Catholic friends and Catholic people that I've talked to.

27900:24:25SPEAKER_02So you've never found one Catholic that trusts in Jesus' sacrifice?

28000:24:31SPEAKER_06Well, not really fully, actually, yeah, to be honest.

28100:24:35SPEAKER_06Okay, but do they trust it?

28200:24:37SPEAKER_02Do they trust his sacrifice?

28300:24:39SPEAKER_02They don't trust it at all, not even a little bit.

28400:24:42SPEAKER_06Well, but that's the question.

28500:24:44SPEAKER_06Is it...

28600:24:45SPEAKER_06do we need to just trust a little bit or fully in what he's done?

28700:24:49SPEAKER_06Is it faith alone in Christ alone, or is it faith a little bit in Christ alone, and then if you think this other stuff, then that's okay?

28800:24:58SPEAKER_06Like, which is it?

28900:24:59SPEAKER_02It's not okay to trust in the other stuff, but I don't think it's okay to say that they are not my brothers and sisters in Christ because of what Christ did for them, and they trust in his sacrifice, even

29000:25:14SPEAKER_02Even a little bit.

29100:25:17SPEAKER_02Like, none of these people, the Catholic or the Orthodox, none of them are going to say, I'm getting to heaven without Jesus.

29200:25:24SPEAKER_02Not one of them would say that.

29300:25:29SPEAKER_02Sure, but, like... Sure, but what?

29400:25:34SPEAKER_06But doesn't salvation rest on, like, faith in Christ and what he's done alone?

29500:25:41SPEAKER_06Go ahead.

29600:25:52SPEAKER_06Of course it hinges on his sacrifice.

29700:25:55SPEAKER_06Right.

29800:25:55SPEAKER_06And so if somebody isn't fully trusting in that sacrifice, then how can they be saved?

29900:26:12SPEAKER_03By trusting in the sacrifice.

30000:26:17SPEAKER_06So then Catholics would need to do that and maybe not think that their baptism and sacrament keeping and stuff like that would actually save them and so then they could be saved?

30100:26:31SPEAKER_06So then they're not?

30200:26:33SPEAKER_03If they're believing that?

30300:26:44SPEAKER_03Do you think that they have a little faith?

30400:26:46SPEAKER_02in Jesus' sacrifice, that they will be saved.

30500:26:51SPEAKER_06Well, in the book of Romans, chapter 4, it says Abraham was fully convinced that God was able to do what he promised, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

30600:27:02SPEAKER_06And so I think faith is actually being fully convinced that God is able to do what he promised.

30700:27:08SPEAKER_06So if they're not fully convinced, if they think like, oh, well...

30800:27:13SPEAKER_06yeah, Jesus died for me, but I have to keep the commandments, I have to do the Eucharist, I have to go to confession, I need to get water baptized.

30900:27:21SPEAKER_06That doesn't really sound like they're fully convinced in Christ's finished work on the cross, but that they need to add to it.

31000:27:27SPEAKER_06Would you agree with that or disagree with that?

31100:27:33SPEAKER_00Would you say that baptism is a good thing?

31200:27:37SPEAKER_02They would be wrong to think that, yes.

31300:27:40SPEAKER_03They would be wrong to think that.

31400:27:47SPEAKER_03I guess that's God to decide.

31500:27:50SPEAKER_06Well, hasn't God kind of given us the answers to the test in the Bible of what the requirements are to go to heaven?

31600:27:58SPEAKER_06And so if they don't meet those requirements...

31700:28:00SPEAKER_06Right, trusting in Jesus.

31800:28:01SPEAKER_06Yeah, and so if they don't meet those requirements, would they be saved then?

31900:28:06SPEAKER_06They're trusting in Jesus.

32000:28:11SPEAKER_06But if they're not...

32100:28:12SPEAKER_06But if faith, if the requirement is to be fully convinced, so fully trusting in Jesus, if they're trusting in their baptism and their commandment keeping and their sacrament keeping, is that fully trusting in Jesus?

32200:28:27SPEAKER_02You can cast this mountain into the sea.

32300:28:35SPEAKER_06Sure.

32400:28:37SPEAKER_06But is it truly faith if it's in anything but Jesus?

32500:29:05SPEAKER_03There is a little bit of trust in Jesus' sacrifice.

32600:29:10SPEAKER_02I believe God has mercy on those people.

32700:29:14SPEAKER_02Why would he not?

32800:29:18SPEAKER_03All of their works that they do afterwards will be burnt up and waste.

32900:29:23SPEAKER_03And it comes to, if they think any of the things that they do might be able to help them get to heaven somehow.

33000:29:33SPEAKER_02Honestly, I don't know anybody who thinks that their works are going to necessarily get them to heaven, per se.

33100:29:40SPEAKER_02They only Jesus.

33200:29:42SPEAKER_06I've known a few people, because there's...

33300:29:45SPEAKER_06Because, I mean, the Catholics, they say faith and works, and so do the Orthodox.

33400:29:49SPEAKER_06They say faith and works.

33500:29:50SPEAKER_06So they actually believe that their works have a part to play in keeping salvation.

33600:29:57SPEAKER_06Their wording is definitely messed up, yes.

33700:30:00SPEAKER_06Well, is that wording or what they actually teach?

33800:30:06SPEAKER_06Because don't they say that if you don't go to Mass every Sunday that you're going to hell and you lose your salvation?

33900:30:14SPEAKER_06At least that's what the Catholic Church teaches, right?

34000:30:17SPEAKER_06And so if it's contingent on whether or not you show up on Sunday for Mass, wouldn't that be like a workspace gospel that can't save somebody?

34100:30:27SPEAKER_02Yeah.

34200:30:28SPEAKER_02If somebody were to think that, I'd ask them, well, what did Jesus do?

34300:30:34SPEAKER_02I'd point right back to the cross.

34400:30:35SPEAKER_06Right.

34500:30:36SPEAKER_06But like, there are those that think that.

34600:30:39SPEAKER_06And so would those Catholics be saved?

34700:30:42SPEAKER_06And is that...

34800:30:43SPEAKER_06And do you think the majority of Catholics don't believe that?

34900:31:06SPEAKER_02Do I think a majority of the Catholics don't believe that?

35000:31:10SPEAKER_02Yeah.

35100:31:11SPEAKER_02I don't think a majority of...

35200:31:13SPEAKER_02the catholics know what they believe i would agree with that but like i mean generally speaking when i talk to a catholic and i'm like hey so do a lot of protestants not know what they believe and so do a lot of orthodox not know what they believe yeah so the gospel must be preached at all times well what are your thoughts on like

35300:31:42SPEAKER_06scripture do you think it's like the the end all be all like authority like word of god i do yes yeah so like we don't need to like add to it or anything like that no we don't okay that's good yeah

35400:32:15SPEAKER_04Can I ask you a question?

35500:32:18SPEAKER_03Sure.

35600:32:20SPEAKER_00Do you think that God can speak through things other than Scripture, though?

35700:32:26SPEAKER_06I think it's possible, but I think that, like...

35800:32:30SPEAKER_00Most of the time it won't be, right?

35900:32:34SPEAKER_00If you're looking at any other thing other than Scripture, most of the time it's not going to be from God.

36000:32:39SPEAKER_00It's because of the enemy.

36100:32:45SPEAKER_02Typically, if it aligns with Scripture, then we can have some idea of where the source might be coming from.

36200:32:55SPEAKER_02But it's got to align with Scripture.

36300:32:57SPEAKER_02Scripture has to be the defining factor for it.

36400:33:00SPEAKER_03Yeah.

36500:33:01SPEAKER_00Yeah.

36600:33:03SPEAKER_03That's what I would agree with.

36700:33:10SPEAKER_06So... You seem to get a little, like...

36800:33:13SPEAKER_06I'm just asking questions, but like, and I don't want to like, I don't want to.

36900:33:16SPEAKER_02Forgive me, Fast Holy.

37000:33:19SPEAKER_02I'm just going to tell you, I am.

37100:33:22SPEAKER_03I have experienced the most.

37200:33:29SPEAKER_02It's been a rough week and a half, and it's not just because of one incident, one thing.

37300:33:35SPEAKER_02It's because of a plethora of things.

37400:33:37SPEAKER_02My mentor went to ER.

37500:33:39SPEAKER_02He almost died.

37600:33:42SPEAKER_02That was three years ago.

37700:33:43SPEAKER_02Three years ago, my mentor from three years ago, ER, almost died.

37800:33:48SPEAKER_02My wife, she's been on me, like, for things that, and I just have to sit there, and I've been taking it a lot, you know?

37900:33:57SPEAKER_02I love my wife, but, you know, taking it and loving her, despite her responses to me.

38000:34:03SPEAKER_02And then, and now, the things that have been happening here in VR chat, on top of that,

38100:34:12SPEAKER_02And it's just, and in the midst of all of this, more people have come to Christ than ever before for me in the last week and a half, praise God.

38200:34:23SPEAKER_02And more people have been helped in very, very good ways.

38300:34:30SPEAKER_02Like God has given me an understanding of certain things in reference to choosing your wants, which is essentially the idea of putting off the old man and putting on the new.

38400:34:42SPEAKER_02Choose what you want.

38500:34:44SPEAKER_02Choose this day whom you will serve.

38600:34:48SPEAKER_02So choosing to want what God wants, choosing to want what Jesus has for you, what God has for you, to glorify God with everything you have, to love your friends and family, to forgive, you know, want to do these things and choose to want it and reject all the other crap.

38700:35:08SPEAKER_02So I've been helping a lot of people that way with that understanding.

38800:35:13SPEAKER_02So it's been a really good week for helping people and people coming to Christ, but at the same time I'm getting hammered.

38900:35:22SPEAKER_02So if I seem a little testy, there's a reason for that.

39000:35:28SPEAKER_03Hmm.

39100:35:31SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh.

39200:35:39SPEAKER_03I don't know if...

39300:35:41SPEAKER_04What's been happening online?

39400:35:46SPEAKER_03I'm not going to talk about it.

39500:35:48SPEAKER_03I'm not supposed to.

39600:35:49SPEAKER_03I shouldn't.

39700:35:51SPEAKER_03Okay?

39800:35:54SPEAKER_03Not right now.

39900:36:00SPEAKER_02I'm done talking about all these things.

40000:36:02SPEAKER_02I don't want to talk about it anymore.

40100:36:06SPEAKER_02I understand...

40200:36:08SPEAKER_02No, no, no, no.

40300:36:08SPEAKER_02I love talking about the gospel.

40400:36:10SPEAKER_03I love encouraging people in their faith and building up.

40500:36:16SPEAKER_03It's being put under a microscope.

40600:36:22SPEAKER_06Your mic's kind of cutting out there, Dan.

40700:36:25SPEAKER_03Sorry.

40800:36:32SPEAKER_03You're cutting out.

40900:36:32SPEAKER_03I can't hear you.

41000:36:33SPEAKER_00Did you say being put under a microscope?

41100:36:37SPEAKER_03Right.

41200:36:37SPEAKER_03Can you

41300:36:39SPEAKER_03No, you're cutting out.

41400:36:40SPEAKER_00Not too well at the moment.

41500:36:42SPEAKER_03Okay.

41600:36:43SPEAKER_03I don't know what to say.

41700:36:46SPEAKER_03Can you hear me now?

41800:36:49SPEAKER_02It's still cutting out.

41900:36:50SPEAKER_00It's still cutting out a bit, but I think it might be getting slightly better.

42000:36:55SPEAKER_03Let me restart.

42100:36:57SPEAKER_03Okay.

42200:36:57SPEAKER_03Is that...

42300:37:09SPEAKER_00Guys, what should I say?

42400:37:12SPEAKER_00Joe, what should I say?

42500:37:14SPEAKER_00What should I ask?

42600:37:15SPEAKER_00Ask him about the gifts of prophecy.

42700:37:17SPEAKER_03Okay.

42800:37:21SPEAKER_03Oh, and tongues.

42900:37:23SPEAKER_02I don't even remember what I was saying now.

43000:37:26SPEAKER_03It's late.

43100:37:29SPEAKER_02Oh, being looked under a microscope, yes.

43200:37:32SPEAKER_03Khan said no.

43300:37:37SPEAKER_06No on what?

43400:37:40SPEAKER_06What do you mean by microscope?

43500:37:43SPEAKER_06No on what?

43600:37:45SPEAKER_05Prophecy is too obvious.

43700:37:47SPEAKER_05Tongues is too obvious.

43800:37:48SPEAKER_06How many people do you think have talked to me about what I believe in the last week and a half?

43900:37:54SPEAKER_03Yes.

44000:37:56SPEAKER_06I wouldn't know, man.

44100:37:58SPEAKER_06That's a lot.

44200:38:03SPEAKER_06Oh my goodness, my tracking.

44300:38:05SPEAKER_06So you feel like you've kind of been put under a microscope of...

44400:38:09SPEAKER_06Just people constantly like, hmm.

44500:38:14SPEAKER_06Why do you think people are coming to you and talking to you so much?

44600:38:24SPEAKER_03Because of what is being said about me.

44700:38:29SPEAKER_03Oh.

44800:38:36SPEAKER_06Well, and that's what you don't want to talk about is what's being said about you.

44900:38:41SPEAKER_06Correct.

45000:38:41SPEAKER_06Okay, that's fine.

45100:38:43SPEAKER_06Yeah, no, I've just, you know, I've seen, like, you're kind of active in LF, and I was just like, ah, he seems interesting.

45200:38:50SPEAKER_06I kind of want to pick his brain, because I'm a Christian.

45300:38:56SPEAKER_06You know, and we all have opinions, we all have beliefs, and I just kind of wanted to pick your brain.

45400:39:00SPEAKER_06I wanted to, can I ask more questions?

45500:39:03SPEAKER_02Sure, sure.

45600:39:06SPEAKER_02If you're not...

45700:39:09SPEAKER_02if you're not a part of any of what's been going on, then that's good.

45800:39:13SPEAKER_02And then I'm sorry if I seem to test it towards you at all.

45900:39:18SPEAKER_06Hmm.

46000:39:19SPEAKER_06Um, yeah, I was going to ask, like, what do you think about like, like the gifts of the spirit?

46100:39:27SPEAKER_06Like, what are your thoughts on that?

46200:39:28SPEAKER_06Like, cause I actually don't know that much about it.

46300:39:30SPEAKER_06Like, what are your thoughts on it?

46400:39:35Hmm.

46500:39:38SPEAKER_02I know the different views.

46600:39:44SPEAKER_02The only gift that I currently believe in that's exceedingly controversial is the gift of tongues.

46700:39:57SPEAKER_021 Corinthians 14 is where I talk about that a lot if people ask me about it, because I think that's the most

46800:40:06SPEAKER_02most clear way of description and instruction about it.

46900:40:10SPEAKER_06Why would they say it's controversial?

47000:40:13SPEAKER_06What about it is controversial?

47100:40:15SPEAKER_06What about what you believe is controversial?

47200:40:20SPEAKER_03The belief of essentially that if you...

47300:40:30SPEAKER_03I guess...

47400:40:33SPEAKER_02Okay, can I read it?

47500:40:35SPEAKER_02Just part of it?

47600:40:37SPEAKER_03Yeah, go ahead.

47700:40:38SPEAKER_03Thank you.

47800:40:39SPEAKER_03Thank you.

47900:40:49SPEAKER_02So 1 Corinthians 14.

48000:40:54SPEAKER_02The controversial part.

48100:40:55SPEAKER_02So 1 Corinthians 14 starts off.

48200:40:57SPEAKER_02Pursue love and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.

48300:41:02SPEAKER_02For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men, but...

48400:41:09SPEAKER_02Sorry.

48500:41:10SPEAKER_02For no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the spirit.

48600:41:16SPEAKER_02So verse 2 here suggests that there is a tongue that people... Am I coming back online?

48700:41:27SPEAKER_02Oh my goodness.

48800:41:27SPEAKER_02Okay, there we go.

48900:41:32SPEAKER_02So verse 2 suggests that the tongue is a...

49000:41:36SPEAKER_02There is a tongue in a spiritual gift that no one understands when it is spoken.

49100:41:44SPEAKER_03It's mysteries to God.

49200:41:49SPEAKER_03That's verse 2.

49300:41:51SPEAKER_03Then you read the rest of the chapter.

49400:41:53SPEAKER_02I know that there's a very staunch interpretation of it that says, well, no, it's not about, you know,

49500:42:05SPEAKER_02words that, you know, you don't utter words that you don't understand.

49600:42:10SPEAKER_02It's always going to be a spoken language, and it's always going to make sense.

49700:42:17SPEAKER_02And that is an interpretation that I don't agree with, and that's where the controversy is.

49800:42:27SPEAKER_02If you read 1 Corinthians 14 and try to say that it's a known language of any kind, it doesn't make sense as you go on.

49900:42:34SPEAKER_02I mean, like, there's a point where if a person prays in a tongue that they pray for interpretation, why would you need to pray for interpretation?

50000:42:44SPEAKER_05Ask him if he can perform it.

50100:42:45SPEAKER_02It's already an understood language and things like this.

50200:42:50SPEAKER_06So, I don't know.

50300:42:52SPEAKER_06So, wait, so, like, can you speak in tongues?

50400:42:54SPEAKER_06Can you do it?

50500:42:57SPEAKER_06Yes, I can.

50600:42:58SPEAKER_06Well, could you perform it?

50700:43:00SPEAKER_06Like, could you do it?

50800:43:05SPEAKER_06Are you asking me to?

50900:43:07SPEAKER_06I've never heard anybody speak in tongues before.

51000:43:15SPEAKER_06Are you being serious right now?

51100:43:18SPEAKER_06I mean, you're saying you can speak in tongues.

51200:43:21SPEAKER_06Let's hear it.

51300:43:27SPEAKER_03Forgive me.

51400:43:28SPEAKER_03I'm being paranoid and it's driving me crazy right now.

51500:43:31SPEAKER_03Give me a moment.

51600:43:42SPEAKER_03Just give me a moment.

51700:43:50SPEAKER_03How do you pull up a whole chapter in this app?

51800:43:56SPEAKER_02I use VR desktop.

51900:44:00SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'll just use the desktop rather.

52000:44:05SPEAKER_03So...

52100:44:17SPEAKER_03Okay.

52200:44:26SPEAKER_03Oops.

52300:44:29SPEAKER_02I'm having like a, just praying to God and having a monologue right now in my head.

52400:44:37SPEAKER_02Just trying to calm my nerves.

52500:44:41SPEAKER_03I've been persecuted so many times for all of these things.

52600:44:46SPEAKER_03attacked for all these things.

52700:44:53SPEAKER_03I'm just here for Jesus, so just give me a moment.

52800:45:53SPEAKER_03Do you want to hear it?

52900:46:23SPEAKER_03You seem well-versed, but you've only studied Orthodox and Catholics for the most part?

53000:46:30SPEAKER_03What do you mean?

53100:46:34SPEAKER_03You, like, Pentecostals, you don't know anything about them, or?

53200:46:40SPEAKER_06A little bit.

53300:46:42SPEAKER_02I don't hold any strong views on it.

53400:46:45SPEAKER_03Okay.

53500:46:49SPEAKER_03Oh, this bothers me so much.

53600:46:50SPEAKER_03I don't know why this is bothering me so much.

53700:47:01SPEAKER_03You ask pretty openly and you just want to see.

53800:47:24SPEAKER_03Give me one more moment.

53900:47:26SPEAKER_03I need to pray.

54000:47:27SPEAKER_03I need a moment.

54100:47:34SPEAKER_06What do you think's going on, man?

54200:47:37SPEAKER_06Somebody talk to me.

54300:47:38SPEAKER_06I don't know what's going on.

54400:47:38SPEAKER_05I think he's paranoid.

54500:47:39SPEAKER_05That's what it is.

54600:47:42SPEAKER_06Yeah.

54700:47:43SPEAKER_06Do you think he's...

54800:47:47SPEAKER_06I don't know.

54900:47:47SPEAKER_06A lot of what he said I agree with.

55000:47:51SPEAKER_05Yeah.

55100:47:52SPEAKER_05You caught him in the one heresy.

55200:47:55SPEAKER_06Yeah, he didn't really have anything to say about that.

55300:47:57SPEAKER_06But, I mean, other than that, you know...

55400:48:01SPEAKER_05Yeah.

55500:48:02SPEAKER_05I think the scripture thing that he said, he seemed really shaky about saying that one.

55600:48:09SPEAKER_06I feel kind of bad.

55700:48:10SPEAKER_06I feel kind of bad.

55800:48:12SPEAKER_05Maybe you can ask him about the other gifts such as prophecy after this.

55900:48:16SPEAKER_05I kind of see where he is on that.

56000:48:19SPEAKER_05I wouldn't feel bad, man.

56100:48:21SPEAKER_05This guy's been...

56200:48:22SPEAKER_05He's been harassing cons nonstop.

56300:48:27SPEAKER_05I mean...

56400:48:29SPEAKER_05You gotta remember, he's also extremely manipulative, and I'm pretty sure he thinks, he has a feeling that you're, you know.

56500:48:36SPEAKER_06Yeah, I kind of caught on to that.

56600:48:38SPEAKER_05Yeah.

56700:48:39SPEAKER_05He's very suspicious of you.

56800:48:40SPEAKER_05He's very manipulative.

56900:48:42SPEAKER_05I mean, he was trying to pretend to cry, like, earlier.

57000:48:45SPEAKER_06Yeah, I saw that.

57100:48:46SPEAKER_06I saw that.

57200:48:46SPEAKER_06That was ridiculous.

57300:48:48SPEAKER_06I literally said, oh my gosh.

57400:48:50SPEAKER_06He does a lot.

57500:48:53SPEAKER_05Yeah.

57600:48:54SPEAKER_06The waterworks didn't work on me.

57700:48:56SPEAKER_05Just, like, let him do this thing, and, uh...

57800:49:02SPEAKER_02Can I be honest with you?

57900:49:04SPEAKER_03Okay.

58000:49:08SPEAKER_02The thing that's really bothering me about this is because of the things that are being talked about, which it sounds like you're not a part of, but I don't even know if I can...

58100:49:22SPEAKER_02I don't know why I can't trust that, but it feels like I can't.

58200:49:25SPEAKER_02What do I do?

58300:49:26SPEAKER_06Do I be honest or not?

58400:49:27SPEAKER_06You know?

58500:49:28SPEAKER_06Um...

58600:49:32SPEAKER_06Guys, I need you to answer.

58700:49:34SPEAKER_05Tell them that you're kind of confused and you want to know what you're talking about.

58800:49:37SPEAKER_06I'm a little confused.

58900:49:39SPEAKER_06That's dishonest.

59000:49:42SPEAKER_05That is dishonest.

59100:49:43SPEAKER_06That's dishonest.

59200:49:43SPEAKER_05Yeah, my bad.

59300:49:44SPEAKER_05My bad.

59400:49:45SPEAKER_05I don't know what to do.

59500:49:46SPEAKER_06Should I pull out?

59600:49:47SPEAKER_06Should I leave?

59700:49:50SPEAKER_05I guess.

59800:49:51SPEAKER_06Do you have this conversation with everybody?

59900:49:54SPEAKER_06I do share the gospel a lot.

60000:49:57SPEAKER_06Right.

60100:49:58SPEAKER_05Yeah.

60200:49:59SPEAKER_05I get that.

60300:50:00SPEAKER_05Yeah.

60400:50:01SPEAKER_05Just say... You don't have to do the tongues if you don't want to, man.

60500:50:08SPEAKER_06That's fine.

60600:50:09SPEAKER_06It's fine.

60700:50:09SPEAKER_06Don't worry about it.

60800:50:11SPEAKER_06Okay.

60900:50:14SPEAKER_06It's okay.

61000:50:15SPEAKER_06I understand that you're going through stuff.

61100:50:17SPEAKER_06I get it.

61200:50:20SPEAKER_04Well, you are asking the very questions that, you know, he's been handling the state line for line, so it's kind of obvious he knows what you're doing.

61300:50:32SPEAKER_05Yeah, sorry.

61400:50:35SPEAKER_05I wasn't really figuring that through when I suggested saying that.

61500:50:39SPEAKER_05Sorry.

61600:50:42SPEAKER_06You seriously don't have to.

61700:50:43SPEAKER_06It's okay, dude.

61800:50:46SPEAKER_03Okay.

61900:50:52SPEAKER_03Sorry about that.

62000:50:58SPEAKER_06That really sucks that you're being like...

62100:51:02SPEAKER_06why do you feel like and you don't have to tell me what's going on but like why do you feel like you're being persecuted like do you feel like there's any reason why like like is it just for no reason or do you think there's like they can have the reasons well what is the reason things well okay if i were to be transparent i used to go around um

62200:51:32SPEAKER_02And I would talk about tongues and teach people about tongues.

62300:51:36SPEAKER_02So that's one thing.

62400:51:38SPEAKER_02And what would be the rebuke would be in 1 Corinthians chapter 12.

62500:51:46SPEAKER_02Of you?

62600:51:48SPEAKER_02Yeah.

62700:51:50SPEAKER_02They would rebuke me, so they would go to 1 Corinthians chapter 12 and say, this is meant to build up people.

62800:51:58SPEAKER_02Yeah.

62900:51:58SPEAKER_02And secondly, that the Holy Spirit gives the gifts, so you can't teach people these things.

63000:52:06SPEAKER_02Right.

63100:52:08SPEAKER_02So they would tell me that I can't try to teach people how to pray in tongues, pray for them to pray in tongues, none of that.

63200:52:19SPEAKER_02And so I used to do that with everybody, and there was a reason for it.

63300:52:23SPEAKER_02I think he's going to explain it.

63400:52:26SPEAKER_02I did it because...

63500:52:29SPEAKER_02I was excited for people to have an experience or a connection with God, to have a clear manifestation of the Holy Spirit in their life.

63600:52:43SPEAKER_02So I wanted to share that with people.

63700:52:46SPEAKER_02Now, I wasn't very discerning.

63800:52:48SPEAKER_02I wasn't wise.

63900:52:49SPEAKER_02I was foolish in doing it.

64000:52:50SPEAKER_02And I pay attention to who I'm talking to.

64100:52:55SPEAKER_04Charismatics for you.

64200:52:56SPEAKER_02I don't sit there and tell everybody about it.

64300:52:59SPEAKER_02It's not as important as talking about what Christ did for us on the cross, or it's not as important as telling them who they are in Jesus, or even when I was talking about desiring what God wants, desiring what Jesus wants, all that stuff, that's more important.

64400:53:21SPEAKER_02Yeah.

64500:53:22SPEAKER_02talking about these spiritual gifts and specifically the gift of tongues so i've i've stopped talking about it as much as i used to um you know and you know i i hurt people doing it and i feel terrible about that how did you hurt people what do you mean because i didn't understand everything about it um

64600:53:51SPEAKER_02I would encourage people to pray in tongues.

64700:53:54SPEAKER_02And then if they failed in any way, shape, or form, I would... Because I believed at one point that every believer could potentially pray in tongues.

64800:54:07SPEAKER_02You know.

64900:54:08SPEAKER_06Would you think that maybe they don't have the Holy Spirit if they didn't?

65000:54:13SPEAKER_02No.

65100:54:13SPEAKER_06Never.

65200:54:14Never.

65300:54:15SPEAKER_02Never.

65400:54:18SPEAKER_02I would never believe that.

65500:54:19SPEAKER_02I would never... That's wrong.

65600:54:25SPEAKER_02I would never... Say what?

65700:54:26SPEAKER_02Not even when I was teaching people or talking to people about it.

65800:54:31SPEAKER_02I would never suggest that.

65900:54:33SPEAKER_04You would know why you're asking that.

66000:54:35SPEAKER_02Okay.

66100:54:37SPEAKER_02Never.

66200:54:37SPEAKER_02That's like... That would actually get my blood boiling if I heard anybody suggest that sort of thing.

66300:54:45SPEAKER_06You know?

66400:54:45SPEAKER_06Yeah.

66500:54:47SPEAKER_02Because I know some Pentecostals do believe that.

66600:54:50SPEAKER_02Right.

66700:54:51SPEAKER_02And I've heard that.

66800:54:53SPEAKER_02You know, but this is why I pay attention to the person in front of me and ask questions.

66900:54:59SPEAKER_02I don't know what to say, guys.

67000:55:00SPEAKER_02I really don't know what else to say.

67100:55:02SPEAKER_02Their understanding of theology based off of whatever the church is supposed to be teaching.

67200:55:09SPEAKER_02How specifically?

67300:55:10SPEAKER_02What specifically should I ask?

67400:55:12SPEAKER_05You heard him talk about...

67500:55:16SPEAKER_02Do they know who they are in Jesus Christ?

67600:55:19SPEAKER_02Who are they in him?

67700:55:21SPEAKER_02I teach them about that they're a child of God, adopted by God.

67800:55:25SPEAKER_02You didn't start off as a child of God until you accepted Christ.

67900:55:31SPEAKER_02Most people don't know that.

68000:55:33SPEAKER_02Ask him about the gifts that he's seen on here.

68100:55:35SPEAKER_02Some of them go around not knowing the truths and think they're a pile of trash and crap like that.

68200:55:42SPEAKER_02So I help them understand that they're not.

68300:55:49SPEAKER_06what are the enemy doing a ringer on them and tormenting them you know so go ahead so yeah like you're talking about like teaching and like teaching people how to you know speak in tongues and like what are the kind of gifts that you've seen on here from people like just in general um

68400:56:14SPEAKER_02I've heard testimonies of people praying over people to be healed and they get healed.

68500:56:20SPEAKER_03I've seen...

68600:56:26SPEAKER_02I've changed my view on prophesying because prophesying isn't exactly what people might suggest it to be.

68700:56:37SPEAKER_02What was it before?

68800:56:43SPEAKER_06What do you mean, what was it before?

68900:56:44SPEAKER_06What was your view on it before?

69000:56:46SPEAKER_06Like you said, it changed.

69100:56:47SPEAKER_06What was your view on it before?

69200:56:59SPEAKER_02That God would potentially directly speak through a believer.

69300:57:10SPEAKER_06What made you change that?

69400:57:12SPEAKER_06Like, belief.

69500:57:13SPEAKER_06Like, what made you change that?

69600:57:22SPEAKER_03Be a little bit less forceful, to be honest.

69700:57:28SPEAKER_06You're talking to me, be a little less forceful?

69800:57:31SPEAKER_05Yeah, I just kind of let him go into things.

69900:57:34SPEAKER_02I'm not entirely sure.

70000:57:35SPEAKER_02Okay.

70100:57:36SPEAKER_02Potentially just a bunch of people just...

70200:57:40SPEAKER_06Sorry to interrupt.

70300:57:41SPEAKER_02I just wanted...

70400:57:42SPEAKER_02I don't know.

70500:57:43SPEAKER_02I was just interested.

70600:57:45SPEAKER_03Seeing... What's the word?

70700:57:53SPEAKER_02Seeing people quote-unquote do it or perform it and it didn't necessarily come to pass or whatever.

70800:58:03SPEAKER_02Whatever they thought they were saying.

70900:58:04SPEAKER_02Um...

71000:58:08SPEAKER_02Because in 1 Corinthians 14, for the upbuilding, encouragement of the church, speaking essentially truths from Scripture that align with Scripture to build people up.

71100:58:26SPEAKER_03So, yeah.

71200:58:33SPEAKER_03What else?

71300:58:35SPEAKER_02Which is described in 1 Corinthians 14.

71400:58:38SPEAKER_06Right.

71500:58:41SPEAKER_02What else do I ask?

71600:58:42SPEAKER_06What else do you guys want to know?

71700:58:46SPEAKER_00Sin leads to destruction.

71800:58:47SPEAKER_02Don't do this.

71900:58:50SPEAKER_02It's God has made you a new creation in Jesus Christ.

72000:58:56SPEAKER_02You are holy, righteous, and redeemed.

72100:59:00SPEAKER_02Because of what he did for you on the cross.

72200:59:02SPEAKER_02You're speaking of God's promises.

72300:59:04SPEAKER_05What God has done.

72400:59:07SPEAKER_02Things of this nature.

72500:59:09SPEAKER_02To a person.

72600:59:11SPEAKER_02I believe that's more what prophesying is.

72700:59:13SPEAKER_02Much like, you know, it's not supernatural in one sense, but I believe it is supernatural in one sense at the same time.

72800:59:22SPEAKER_02Because, you know, it's God's word.

72900:59:23SPEAKER_02His word is amazing and powerful and great for encouraging people.

73000:59:27SPEAKER_02That's your answer, Joe.

73100:59:31SPEAKER_02Giving people joy and peace and all these things.

73200:59:35SPEAKER_03So...

73300:59:38SPEAKER_03Um...

73400:59:40SPEAKER_03So... That's where that... That view changed.

73500:59:45SPEAKER_03But, um... Yeah.

73600:59:49SPEAKER_03Hmm.

73700:59:51SPEAKER_03That's interesting, dude.

73800:59:54SPEAKER_03Yeah.

73900:59:55SPEAKER_03I've, um...

74001:00:03SPEAKER_03I don't know.

74101:00:03SPEAKER_03I've dealt with...

74201:00:07SPEAKER_03I've been dealing with a lot of things, so it's just hard.

74301:00:12SPEAKER_06Hard for what?

74401:00:14SPEAKER_06What do you mean?

74501:00:17SPEAKER_02Just deal with it.

74601:00:19SPEAKER_02Oh, okay.

74701:00:21SPEAKER_02The people that have put me under a microscope are people that I actually helped with their faith beforehand.

74801:00:28SPEAKER_02How did you help them with their faith?

74901:00:34SPEAKER_05I have no idea what this guy's talking about.

75001:00:36SPEAKER_02When they would sin and struggle with that and wonder if they were saved and all that stuff.

75101:00:41SPEAKER_02You know what I'm saying?

75201:00:42SPEAKER_02Yeah.

75301:00:43SPEAKER_02Doubts.

75401:00:44SPEAKER_02And I would be there for them.

75501:00:46SPEAKER_02And I did that.

75601:00:47SPEAKER_03Completely separate group.

75701:00:50SPEAKER_06And you feel like they turned on you?

75801:00:54SPEAKER_02They don't talk to me anymore.

75901:00:58SPEAKER_02They don't...

76001:00:59SPEAKER_02They never...

76101:01:02SPEAKER_06they don't want to talk to me it sucks do you think like like is it is it because of that like that controversial thing that like that you don't want to talk about like is it that thing that do you think that's the reason or is it like i would guess it's a stack of reasons at this point

76201:01:32SPEAKER_06thing i did in the past that i'm not doing anymore but it doesn't matter yeah he knows exactly what's happening right now i just pull up actually so before i head out can i ask you a question like well i'm already kind of asking you a bunch of questions but before i pull out like how sure out of a hundred are you that if you were to die right now you'd go to heaven

76301:02:01SPEAKER_06Absolutely sure.

76401:02:02SPEAKER_06100%.

76501:02:03SPEAKER_06And why are you 100%?

76601:02:08SPEAKER_02Because he died for all of my sins.

76701:02:10SPEAKER_06Yeah.

76801:02:12SPEAKER_02Not just a little bit.

76901:02:14SPEAKER_02All of them.

77001:02:14SPEAKER_06All of them, yeah.

77101:02:16SPEAKER_06And if you were to stand before God and he was to ask you, why should I let you into heaven?

77201:02:22SPEAKER_06What would you point to?

77301:02:24SPEAKER_06Jesus.

77401:02:25SPEAKER_06Yeah.

77501:02:26SPEAKER_06And what he did for you?

77601:02:28SPEAKER_06The cross?

77701:02:29SPEAKER_06Yeah.

77801:02:31SPEAKER_06And, yeah, so you believe Jesus is God?

77901:02:36SPEAKER_06Of course.

78001:02:36SPEAKER_06Yeah.

78101:02:37SPEAKER_06All right, man.

78201:02:41SPEAKER_06I just wanted to kind of, you know, pick your brain a little.

78301:03:03SPEAKER_03Thank you for coming.

78401:03:10SPEAKER_03Yeah.

78501:03:11SPEAKER_03Did you make this world?

78601:03:14SPEAKER_02No.

78701:03:15SPEAKER_06Well, it's a cool world.

78801:03:17SPEAKER_06Like, genuinely, it's a cool world.

78901:03:19SPEAKER_03Yeah.

79001:03:20SPEAKER_06And I like this.

79101:03:24SPEAKER_03Yeah.

79201:03:25SPEAKER_03That's nice.

79301:03:32SPEAKER_03Yeah.

79401:03:40SPEAKER_02To be fair, I'm okay with everything that's going on in the end.

79501:03:48SPEAKER_03I want division to stop, but that may never stop, truly.

79601:04:00SPEAKER_06Can I be honest about why I came here with him?

79701:04:02SPEAKER_02What can you do?

79801:04:03SPEAKER_02Just share the gospel and love people, encourage them from their faith.

79901:04:08SPEAKER_02If it just so happens that I'm involved with a group, great.

80001:04:11SPEAKER_02Is that okay?

80101:04:16SPEAKER_05I don't know.

80201:04:17SPEAKER_05I don't know.

80301:04:18SPEAKER_05Because we're going to probably begin later.

80401:04:20SPEAKER_02I'm here for Jesus.

80501:04:23SPEAKER_06I feel horrible about not telling him why I'm here.

80601:04:26SPEAKER_05Just tell him then.

80701:04:29SPEAKER_06Can I be honest with you?

80801:04:31SPEAKER_06Go ahead.

80901:04:34SPEAKER_06I'm friends with Woofer.

81001:04:35SPEAKER_06And I'm friends with Joe.

81101:04:39SPEAKER_06close friends with them and you know I was just coming to you know I don't really know that much about you and I was just coming to just kind of pick your brain and see what you believed and I don't I don't want to be deceitful and so I've come to just tell the truth that's why I'm that's why I'm here I'm not persecuting you and I do think that

81201:05:08SPEAKER_06You know, you said a lot of stuff that I agree with, right?

81301:05:10SPEAKER_06Like, I believe that you know the gospel.

81401:05:13SPEAKER_06The gospel is that we are saved by grace through faith, not by works, lest any man boast.

81501:05:18SPEAKER_06That Christ did pay for your sins on that cross.

81601:05:21SPEAKER_06I don't think that we maybe, I mean, not agree on, you know, that certain theology that maybe Catholics and Orthodox hold that...

81701:05:34SPEAKER_06You know, if they're trusting in their works, I don't think that if somebody is trusting in their works and Jesus that they'll go to heaven because it needs to be fully in Jesus.

81801:05:42SPEAKER_06But that's not, you know, as long as you're not trusting in your works, you don't have anything to worry about.

81901:05:50SPEAKER_06But, you know, I'm not I'm a third party.

82001:05:53SPEAKER_06I'm not here to hurt you.

82101:05:55SPEAKER_06I'm not here to harm you or shame you.

82201:05:58SPEAKER_06Right.

82301:05:58SPEAKER_06Like, personally, I don't hold any sort of like I'm not.

82401:06:04SPEAKER_06Hardcore.

82501:06:06SPEAKER_06Like I don't.

82601:06:07SPEAKER_06I wouldn't call myself a Calvinist.

82701:06:09SPEAKER_06So I don't hold to any.

82801:06:11SPEAKER_06Any specific.

82901:06:14SPEAKER_06Hardcore stance on tongues.

83001:06:16SPEAKER_06I'm a little iffy on it.

83101:06:17SPEAKER_06And so I'm not here to persecute you.

83201:06:19SPEAKER_06Because of that.

83301:06:20SPEAKER_06And your own words persecution.

83401:06:22SPEAKER_06But I'm just being honest.

83501:06:24SPEAKER_06Because you know.

83601:06:25SPEAKER_06There was.

83701:06:26SPEAKER_06I could kind of tell that you kind of understood.

83801:06:28SPEAKER_06Like at a certain point in the conversation.

83901:06:31SPEAKER_06That like you knew why I was here.

84001:06:33SPEAKER_06Right.

84101:06:34SPEAKER_06Um, and I don't want to lie.

84201:06:36SPEAKER_06And so I'm just being honest.

84301:06:37SPEAKER_06Um, knowing that like Christ is in me and I don't want to, I don't want to be deceitful with you.

84401:06:46SPEAKER_06Um, no matter if, you know, we disagree or not.

84501:06:50SPEAKER_06And so, um, I apologize for not letting that be known upfront, but I'm letting you know now.

84601:06:58SPEAKER_06Um, yeah.

84701:07:01SPEAKER_06And my, my heart is, um,

84801:07:04SPEAKER_06is I want to protect those that I consider brothers and sisters in the faith.

84901:07:12SPEAKER_06And, you know, I don't know anything about you.

85001:07:15SPEAKER_06And so, you know, I've heard some things.

85101:07:19SPEAKER_06And that's just kind of what's, that was just kind of on my heart.

85201:07:24SPEAKER_06I wasn't coming in here with any real, I wasn't trying to come in here with any sort of presuppositions.

85301:07:34SPEAKER_06or trying to get you, it was more of a genuine, let me see what you believe.

85401:07:42SPEAKER_06Right?

85501:07:43SPEAKER_06And I do think that, at least from your profession and what you've said, that you hold to what the Bible says about the gospel, and that's the most important thing.

85601:07:57SPEAKER_01I disagree with you.

85701:07:59SPEAKER_06In...

85801:08:03SPEAKER_06some in a certain respect um does that make sense it does yeah do you have any questions for me

85901:08:31SPEAKER_02Why do you think anybody cares about me?

86001:08:35SPEAKER_02I couldn't tell you.

86101:08:37SPEAKER_06I've heard some things.

86201:08:38SPEAKER_06I think maybe people might have been hurt by you.

86301:08:45SPEAKER_06And they don't want that harm to be brought on to others.

86401:08:53SPEAKER_06That's my honest response to that.

86501:08:56SPEAKER_02I'm asking about why do you think people care about me?

86601:09:01SPEAKER_02That was my response.

86701:09:03SPEAKER_02Right, very right.

86801:09:05SPEAKER_02I go into other instances.

86901:09:09SPEAKER_02Not in a group.

87001:09:11SPEAKER_02Not trying to bring anyone to me.

87101:09:15SPEAKER_02People I just...

87201:09:17SPEAKER_02I've got a lot of people on my friends.

87301:09:19SPEAKER_02They just come to me out of the blue.

87401:09:21SPEAKER_02I talk to them maybe one time.

87501:09:23SPEAKER_02Do they want to talk to me again?

87601:09:26SPEAKER_02They want to see me again.

87701:09:29SPEAKER_03To encourage them.

87801:09:30SPEAKER_03To build them up.

87901:09:33SPEAKER_03to point them to Jesus, to point them to God.

88001:09:37SPEAKER_03They do that.

88101:09:39SPEAKER_03Why?

88201:09:47SPEAKER_03Am I a threat?

88301:09:48SPEAKER_03Am I that dangerous?

88401:09:53SPEAKER_03Yes.

88501:09:55SPEAKER_02I know real danger.

88601:09:56SPEAKER_02I know a real threat.

88701:10:00SPEAKER_02I know...

88801:10:01SPEAKER_02so many things about certain people that are leaders that should not be leaders.

88901:10:07SPEAKER_02That their discord needs to be stopped and things of this nature.

89001:10:11SPEAKER_02I know those people.

89101:10:12SPEAKER_02Do you think that you're exempt from that?

89201:10:15SPEAKER_02What do you mean?

89301:10:17SPEAKER_02Do I think I'm exempt from being targeted?

89401:10:20SPEAKER_02No, but at least make it make sense.

89501:10:26SPEAKER_03Do you think that...

89601:10:32SPEAKER_06Well, I think truth is the enemy of evil.

89701:10:42SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.

89801:10:44SPEAKER_03And what is done in the dark will be brought to the light.

89901:10:47SPEAKER_03Yeah.

90001:10:55SPEAKER_06Either here on Earth or on Judgment Day.

90101:10:58SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.

90201:10:59SPEAKER_03Agreed.

90301:11:07SPEAKER_03Christians get persecuted.

90401:11:12SPEAKER_06But there's got to be some reason.

90501:11:17SPEAKER_06There's always a reason.

90601:11:18SPEAKER_06There's got to be some reason why it's to this extent with you.

90701:11:24SPEAKER_06That doesn't just come out of the blue.

90801:11:27SPEAKER_06You can't think of any reason why maybe this would be happening.

90901:11:34SPEAKER_02There's a lot of reasons I could think of.

91001:11:38SPEAKER_03What do you think those are?

91101:11:43SPEAKER_02Trying to help a situation.

91201:11:46SPEAKER_03Trying to help a situation doesn't cause this.

91301:11:53SPEAKER_03Like, be honest.

91401:11:58SPEAKER_03That doesn't make sense logically, dude.

91501:12:01SPEAKER_03What that... You're saying...

91601:12:06SPEAKER_06You're talking about people are coming up to you and people, you know, like, come on.

91701:12:10SPEAKER_06Like, helping out a situation doesn't cause people to do that.

91801:12:13SPEAKER_06There has to be something.

91901:12:15SPEAKER_06It seems like there's something scandalous that happened.

92001:12:21SPEAKER_06And, well, yeah, I mean, definitionally, that sounds like a certain controversy you don't want to talk about.

92101:12:27SPEAKER_06That sounds definitionally scandalous.

92201:12:30SPEAKER_06Okay.

92301:12:32SPEAKER_06And so?

92401:12:32SPEAKER_06I tried to help someone.

92501:12:36SPEAKER_02Is that the way you say it, or is that the way it actually happened?

92601:12:51SPEAKER_06Hey, listen, dude.

92701:12:52SPEAKER_06Hey, listen.

92801:12:52SPEAKER_06Like, and I'll let you talk, but like, God is your witness, right?

92901:12:59SPEAKER_06Every idle word will be brought before him on judgment day, right?

93001:13:03SPEAKER_06Yes.

93101:13:04SPEAKER_06Including the words I'm giving to you now.

93201:13:07SPEAKER_06and I'm trying my best to be honest.

93301:13:11SPEAKER_06To be honest, I'm not fully filled in.

93401:13:19SPEAKER_06I share the gospel.

93501:13:21SPEAKER_06That's what I do.

93601:13:23SPEAKER_06That's all I'm good at.

93701:13:24SPEAKER_06It's a good thing to be good at.

93801:13:31SPEAKER_05If he can drop into the world.

93901:13:32SPEAKER_06I have dealt with

94001:13:36SPEAKER_02Yes.

94101:13:37SPEAKER_02Come.

94201:13:38SPEAKER_02Individuals that have suffered from demonic things.

94301:13:43SPEAKER_02And I didn't understand how all that worked.

94401:13:46SPEAKER_02Okay?

94501:13:49SPEAKER_02So those things, and since then I have come to the conclusion that no, a Christian cannot be demon-possessed or anything like that.

94601:14:05SPEAKER_02They might

94701:14:06SPEAKER_02suffer from some forms of torment, depending on what they believe.

94801:14:09SPEAKER_04Is that why this crap's been coming up again?

94901:14:12SPEAKER_02I don't think that they can be possessed by a demon.

95001:14:15SPEAKER_04This is still going on months later.

95101:14:19SPEAKER_02When I was trying to help someone with these things, I didn't know what I was doing, and I was just trying to do things to try and help.

95201:14:29SPEAKER_02I was using scripture, I was reading, I was trying to understand as much as I could.

95301:14:35SPEAKER_02I would watch YouTube videos, all these things in an effort to try and help.

95401:14:39SPEAKER_02I wasn't teaching anybody while I was doing this.

95501:14:42SPEAKER_02I was just trying to understand things and trusting God to help me understand.

95601:14:47SPEAKER_02Because these things aren't fully evident in some cases.

95701:14:53SPEAKER_02But anyways, so I tried to help with that.

95801:14:57SPEAKER_02And then after that, in reference to a particular individual,

95901:15:07SPEAKER_03in which I do not know.

96001:15:13SPEAKER_06So I hear you.

96101:15:16SPEAKER_06I don't need to know all the details, to be honest with you.

96201:15:19SPEAKER_06In light of everything that's going on, do you think that it would be wise to be putting yourself in a teaching position?

96301:15:32SPEAKER_03What do you think I'm teaching people?

96401:15:37SPEAKER_06I don't know, it seems like you post videos in Loving Faith and you post YouTube videos and teach stuff.

96501:15:42SPEAKER_06Do you think that's wise?

96601:15:46SPEAKER_04Teaching in general.

96701:15:47SPEAKER_06Just say that.

96801:15:48SPEAKER_06Teaching in general.

96901:15:49SPEAKER_06Do you think that's wise in light of everything that's going on?

97001:15:52SPEAKER_06Do you think that's biblically wise?

97101:15:54SPEAKER_06Do you think that's biblically sound to do that?

97201:15:58SPEAKER_06Or to continue to do that?

97301:16:00SPEAKER_02I seek to understand to help people.

97401:16:03SPEAKER_02If I think I've come across or begun to understand

97501:16:07SPEAKER_06My question is not what your opinion is.

97601:16:09SPEAKER_03It's, do you think that's wise?

97701:16:24SPEAKER_06It doesn't matter if your intention is to help people in light of whatever, what's going on.

97801:16:29SPEAKER_06Do you think it's wise to be teaching?

97901:16:31SPEAKER_06I'm not saying you're exempt from being a Christian.

98001:16:33SPEAKER_06I'm not saying that it's, that's not what I'm saying.

98101:16:36SPEAKER_06I'm saying, do you think it's wise to be putting yourself in a position where you're teaching people?

98201:16:45SPEAKER_02Do you think I have things to teach that help people?

98301:16:49SPEAKER_02Well, some people... Do you think that you have things, do you think you have things that you know that God has taught you through his word, through your experiences, that you can teach people?

98401:17:01SPEAKER_06Dan, respectfully, I think you're kind of avoiding my question.

98501:17:06SPEAKER_06putting the goalpost on me the question is you like do you do you think you should be teaching in light of what's going on considering the things that i have teached that have helped people yes

98601:17:38SPEAKER_06Well, from your own words, there are things that you have taught that have hurt people, that you weren't fully biblically watching out for.

98701:17:54SPEAKER_06Do you think it would be wise not being biblically discerned in those areas?

98801:18:00SPEAKER_06What makes you think things have changed now, and why should you be teaching?

98901:18:34SPEAKER_03to get some tea.

99001:18:35SPEAKER_03Good luck.

99101:18:39SPEAKER_02Do you think that I've been helping people and it has not been effective?

99201:18:44SPEAKER_02I don't know what you've been doing.

99301:18:47SPEAKER_03Okay.

99401:18:50SPEAKER_02I know what I have done to a lot of people.

99501:18:53SPEAKER_06I know a surface level amount.

99601:18:56SPEAKER_06Right.

99701:18:57SPEAKER_06I know a surface level amount.

99801:18:59SPEAKER_06But I know that some of the things that you've taught and some of the things that...

99901:19:04SPEAKER_06I know that you should...

100001:19:07SPEAKER_06There are certain things that would disqualify you from teaching.

100101:19:12SPEAKER_05Okay.

100201:19:13SPEAKER_02Do you think that every teacher teaches perfectly?

100301:19:16SPEAKER_02Because there's never any mistakes that are done?

100401:19:23SPEAKER_06Do you see how you're redirecting the question?

100501:19:27SPEAKER_06Like, it doesn't matter what other teachers are doing.

100601:19:30SPEAKER_06You.

100701:19:31SPEAKER_06Mm-hmm.

100801:19:33SPEAKER_06Mm-hmm.

100901:19:36SPEAKER_06The reality is that, yeah, teachers don't look perfect, but there is a certain point where there are qualifications.

101001:19:47SPEAKER_06Not everyone should teach.

101101:19:48SPEAKER_06The Bible says that.

101201:19:49SPEAKER_06Not everyone should teach.

101301:19:52SPEAKER_06What makes you think, in light of the things that's going on and in the light of the things that you've done, what makes you think you're qualified to be teaching?

101401:20:00SPEAKER_06I'm not saying qualified to be a Christian.

101501:20:03SPEAKER_06I'm not saying qualified...

101601:20:05SPEAKER_06to share the gospel, but teach.

101701:20:13SPEAKER_03Because of the love that I show to people.

101801:20:18SPEAKER_06Sure, sure.

101901:20:20SPEAKER_06That's great.

102001:20:21SPEAKER_06But there's more that comes to teaching the oracles of God than just being loving.

102101:20:29SPEAKER_06And that is kind of an umbrella term for people

102201:20:36SPEAKER_06Not everybody has the same definition of love.

102301:20:38SPEAKER_06I don't know your definition of love.

102401:20:40SPEAKER_06So... Jesus, pretty much.

102501:20:44SPEAKER_03Okay.

102601:20:48SPEAKER_03Loving the way that he loved us.

102701:20:57SPEAKER_02No one has perfect doctrine.

102801:21:00SPEAKER_02No one has perfect theology.

102901:21:01SPEAKER_02And anybody who claims they do is lying.

103001:21:13SPEAKER_02I just do my best with what God has given me and helped me to understand as I've read the Bible many times over.

103101:21:20SPEAKER_02I've had life experiences.

103201:21:24SPEAKER_02And I continue to learn.

103301:21:26SPEAKER_02I don't act like I know everything.

103401:21:28SPEAKER_02I've changed my ideas on certain things over time.

103501:21:32SPEAKER_02No teacher is going to sit there.

103601:21:35SPEAKER_02If any teacher sits there and says, I'm always going to have the same views...

103701:21:40SPEAKER_02They are not a good teacher.

103801:21:42SPEAKER_02They're not open to understanding anything.

103901:21:44SPEAKER_06Sure.

104001:21:45SPEAKER_06But perfect theology is not necessarily what qualifies you to teach.

104101:21:54SPEAKER_06Correct.

104201:21:55SPEAKER_06So you've just pointed to, well, because from my perspective, I've helped people.

104301:22:03SPEAKER_06And, well, I don't have perfect theology.

104401:22:05SPEAKER_06No teacher has perfect theology.

104501:22:07SPEAKER_06Biblically, why do you think you're qualified to be teaching?

104601:22:14SPEAKER_06Because of my love for people?

104701:22:17SPEAKER_06I've already said that that doesn't necessarily...

104801:22:23SPEAKER_02It's one of the main things that Jesus points to as a good teacher, is one that loves well.

104901:22:33SPEAKER_02When you're talking about the deacons and...

105001:22:36SPEAKER_02them and 1 Timothy and all that, what kind of moral character they have also plays into it.

105101:22:46SPEAKER_03Their standing.

105201:22:47SPEAKER_06You know, their standing has a lot to do with their qualification to be teaching.

105301:22:57SPEAKER_06Is your standing right now...

105401:23:02SPEAKER_03They're blaming...

105501:23:05SPEAKER_06To some, no.

105601:23:10SPEAKER_06But if you're being honest with yourself, are there things that you have done that would disqualify you from teaching?

105701:23:18SPEAKER_06Are there things that you have endorsed that would disqualify you from teaching?

105801:23:26SPEAKER_06If God was in the room right now, could you honestly say that I have done none of these things that would disqualify me from teaching?

105901:23:37SPEAKER_06I'm not saying spreading the gospel.

106001:23:38SPEAKER_06I'm not saying disqualify you from being a Christian, but teaching.

106101:23:44SPEAKER_06Putting yourself in a position where I'm teaching the oracles of God.

106201:23:47SPEAKER_06I'm teaching prophecy.

106301:23:49SPEAKER_06I'm teaching tongues.

106401:23:49SPEAKER_06I'm teaching whatever.

106501:23:53SPEAKER_06That stuff.

106601:23:56SPEAKER_06Can you be put in that position honestly as God is your witness?

106701:24:17SPEAKER_06That might be something you have to think about.

106801:24:20SPEAKER_06I don't need an answer right now.

106901:24:22SPEAKER_06I'm just throwing questions out there.

107001:24:26SPEAKER_02So at what point does the buck stop, by the way?

107101:24:31SPEAKER_02Do all the content creators have to stop doing what they're doing as well?

107201:24:36SPEAKER_06If they are disqualified from teaching, they should be deleting their accounts and repenting.

107301:24:44SPEAKER_06And...

107401:24:45SPEAKER_06no, they should not be put in a teaching position ever again.

107501:24:49SPEAKER_06And if they do, there needs to be some serious repentance in public and trust gained back publicly.

107601:25:00SPEAKER_05Admission of fault and repentance.

107701:25:03SPEAKER_06There needs to be an admission of fault and repentance.

107801:25:11SPEAKER_06Publicly.

107901:25:12SPEAKER_06Not privately.

108001:25:13SPEAKER_06Publicly.

108101:25:34SPEAKER_06And again, everything that I'm saying here, I want you to know that I am not saying that you're disqualified from being a Christian.

108201:25:42SPEAKER_06I'm not saying that I know that.

108301:25:44SPEAKER_06Yeah.

108401:25:44SPEAKER_06Okay.

108501:25:45SPEAKER_06Just making sure I don't, I don't, it's not my job to condemn you.

108601:25:48SPEAKER_06That's not what I'm here to do.

108701:25:52SPEAKER_03Hmm.

108801:25:57SPEAKER_03Hmm.

108901:26:12SPEAKER_06He knows he messed up.

109001:26:13SPEAKER_06He wouldn't take this long of a pause, dude.

109101:26:17SPEAKER_06I caught him.

109201:26:18SPEAKER_06I caught him.

109301:26:22SPEAKER_03Yeah.

109401:26:24SPEAKER_05You did.

109501:26:29SPEAKER_03I asked the right question.

109601:26:30SPEAKER_05The decision he makes will show his real character, I guess.

109701:26:39SPEAKER_04It's just...

109801:26:41SPEAKER_04those charismatic beliefs that kind of has roots.

109901:26:45SPEAKER_04It's all this touchy-feely, lovey stuff.

110001:26:49SPEAKER_06I don't know what he's going to say.

110101:27:00SPEAKER_06Again, if you don't have the answer now, that's something between you and God.

110201:27:05SPEAKER_06Do you really think that maybe God is...

110301:27:10SPEAKER_06calling you to a teaching position like biblically can you can you justify that like that's something between you and God if I was putting myself in a teaching position and there was something scandalous going on and I was involved in it right that was that would be maybe something I would have to reconcile with God because you know

110401:27:38SPEAKER_06putting yourself in a teaching position, teaching the oracles of God, you could hurt somebody spiritually if you're not very, very, very careful.

110501:27:52SPEAKER_06And the Holy Spirit is a part of it, but there is a responsibility to that, and not everyone should be teachers.

110601:28:06SPEAKER_06I'm not here to discourage you.

110701:28:08SPEAKER_06I'm here to just simply ask questions.

110801:28:12SPEAKER_03Let him think.

110901:28:14SPEAKER_03But I'll let you think.

111001:28:21SPEAKER_04To be honest, I think he's already...

111101:28:22SPEAKER_04I can already tell I think he's about to double down.

111201:28:27SPEAKER_03But you know, I'm up your own.

111301:28:32SPEAKER_02So I listened to someone in the past.

111401:28:35SPEAKER_02I never repeated...

111501:28:37SPEAKER_02any of the teachings that he gave me in a public setting, right?

111601:28:47SPEAKER_03So I listened to someone in the past.

111701:28:50SPEAKER_02He had some unique beliefs, and he didn't read the Bible very well.

111801:28:56SPEAKER_02But I believed he had a lot of spiritual gifts.

111901:29:00SPEAKER_02And I supported him and encouraged him in different ways.

112001:29:06SPEAKER_02There's probably a, what's the word I would say, a reckless way of using the influence I had.

112101:29:18SPEAKER_03So, there's that.

112201:29:27SPEAKER_02So, if that is the main scandalous thing that I did wrong, okay.

112301:29:38SPEAKER_02There is a claim that I protected a pedophile.

112401:29:44SPEAKER_03You did.

112501:29:46SPEAKER_02I did not protect that pedophile.

112601:29:48SPEAKER_06I did not protect him.

112701:29:49SPEAKER_06I did see those screenshots.

112801:29:53SPEAKER_06I didn't protect a pedophile.

112901:29:55SPEAKER_06From my unbiased, not knowing anything about you, reading those just plainly, it seemed like you were protecting a pedophile.

113001:30:05SPEAKER_02You're talking about Lex, right?

113101:30:06SPEAKER_06Yeah, the whole conversation.

113201:30:09SPEAKER_06The whole thing.

113301:30:10SPEAKER_06It seemed like...

113401:30:11SPEAKER_06I mean, you called the young'un a jailbaiter.

113501:30:17SPEAKER_06That's not okay.

113601:30:19SPEAKER_06It doesn't matter how old they are.

113701:30:21SPEAKER_05He was 12.

113801:30:22SPEAKER_05That was higher level.

113901:30:23SPEAKER_05He was younger.

114001:30:27SPEAKER_06It doesn't matter if they were being seductive or not.

114101:30:31SPEAKER_06They don't have the ability to consent.

114201:30:38SPEAKER_06Right.

114301:30:38SPEAKER_06That kind of stuff right there is, is why like that kind of stuff right there is, is serious.

114401:30:48SPEAKER_06And if you're putting yourself in a teaching position, right.

114501:30:54SPEAKER_06It's difficult.

114601:30:56SPEAKER_06Like, and again, I'm not condemning you.

114701:30:59SPEAKER_06I'm not saying that you're disqualified from being a Christian, but that's not okay.

114801:31:05SPEAKER_06Yeah.

114901:31:10SPEAKER_06Do you see where I'm coming from with that?

115001:31:14SPEAKER_02Dude, all right.

115101:31:17SPEAKER_02Look, people have seen the conversation with Lex.

115201:31:21SPEAKER_02Lex's conversation is everywhere.

115301:31:23SPEAKER_02I don't share the other conversation about what was going on between the other guy and why both of them were dangerous.

115401:31:34SPEAKER_02You didn't even mention that.

115501:31:35SPEAKER_05He's just giving up that information.

115601:31:37SPEAKER_02Both of them.

115701:31:39SPEAKER_02Which is why I...

115801:31:40SPEAKER_02I said what I said at the time.

115901:31:43SPEAKER_06Yeah.

116001:31:45SPEAKER_06I didn't mention that.

116101:31:46SPEAKER_06I was just kind of talking about that conversation.

116201:31:50SPEAKER_02I know.

116301:31:51SPEAKER_06I know that conversation.

116401:31:52SPEAKER_06Yeah.

116501:31:54SPEAKER_06Like that kind of conversation, like unbiased reading.

116601:32:00SPEAKER_06At first when I was reading it, I was like, it seems like this guy that's talking to you is...

116701:32:05SPEAKER_06He's being a little much, but then as the conversation went along, it really did seem like you were dodging a lot of his questions and trying to defend this person.

116801:32:19SPEAKER_02I wasn't defending him.

116901:32:20SPEAKER_02I didn't defend anyone's actions.

117001:32:25SPEAKER_02Both of them were wrong.

117101:32:29SPEAKER_02The kid and the guy.

117201:32:31SPEAKER_02Hang on.

117301:32:32SPEAKER_02That right there.

117401:32:32SPEAKER_02That right there.

117501:32:35SPEAKER_06That right there.

117601:32:36SPEAKER_06The guy.

117701:32:37SPEAKER_06So saying that the kid did something wrong, what did the kid do that is wrong?

117801:32:43SPEAKER_06Hold on.

117901:32:43SPEAKER_06Take a step back a second.

118001:32:45SPEAKER_06That right there.

118101:32:45SPEAKER_06Okay.

118201:32:46SPEAKER_06What did he do wrong?

118301:32:53SPEAKER_02According to the conversations between him and the guy, he tempted the guy.

118401:33:00SPEAKER_06Okay.

118501:33:02SPEAKER_02How...

118601:33:04SPEAKER_06Do you see why I'm taken aback by that?

118701:33:07SPEAKER_06By saying he did something wrong?

118801:33:09SPEAKER_02He's 12, dude.

118901:33:12SPEAKER_02And secondly, the 12-year-old, they didn't even do anything other than cuddle in VR one time, and then they broke off the relationship.

119001:33:21SPEAKER_02Okay.

119101:33:23SPEAKER_06They're 12.

119201:33:25SPEAKER_06The 12-year-old did nothing wrong.

119301:33:27SPEAKER_06The older man should have had the self-control enough to know.

119401:33:34SPEAKER_06That this kid is stepping out of line.

119501:33:37SPEAKER_06What is this kid doing?

119601:33:38SPEAKER_06The 12-year-old did nothing wrong.

119701:33:40SPEAKER_06He's 12.

119801:33:43SPEAKER_06He's 12, dude.

119901:33:44SPEAKER_06And I'm sorry for being blunt, but that's a big jump to say that the 12-year-old did something wrong.

120001:33:52SPEAKER_06That is actually defending the lack of self-control from the older man.

120101:34:02SPEAKER_06That is straight up.

120201:34:04SPEAKER_06That is straight up.

120301:34:07SPEAKER_01Okay.

120401:34:09SPEAKER_02And so...

120501:34:11SPEAKER_02So younger kids can go around and do that to older people and they're free of guilt.

120601:34:19SPEAKER_03No!

120701:34:20SPEAKER_06I'm being serious.

120801:34:21SPEAKER_06It's...

120901:34:25SPEAKER_06Younger kids shouldn't be doing that in the first place.

121001:34:28SPEAKER_06I agree.

121101:34:29SPEAKER_06But putting the blame on a 12-year-old...

121201:34:31SPEAKER_06And saying, well, they were both in the wrong.

121301:34:33SPEAKER_06No, one of them was in the wrong.

121401:34:35SPEAKER_06The other one was, the other one, the kid, is ignorant.

121501:34:39SPEAKER_06And is 12 years old.

121601:34:41SPEAKER_06He's still wet behind the ears.

121701:34:43SPEAKER_06He doesn't know how life works yet.

121801:34:44SPEAKER_06He doesn't have the ability to choose.

121901:34:47SPEAKER_06He doesn't have the ability to make a decision, really.

122001:34:51SPEAKER_06He just got done watching Thomas the Train, bro.

122101:34:54SPEAKER_06You think that we need to blame him?

122201:34:57SPEAKER_06What are you talking about?

122301:35:01SPEAKER_02based on what he said in dms yes so actively looking so do you see so do you see why do you see why people don't want you teaching may i add on to this it wasn't just cuddling higher level asked for pictures and he told me well i understand that yes

122401:35:28SPEAKER_02I know.

122501:35:29SPEAKER_02He did that wrong.

122601:35:30SPEAKER_02That was wrong, too.

122701:35:31SPEAKER_02I get that.

122801:35:34SPEAKER_02I'm not condoning his actions at all.

122901:35:38SPEAKER_02And as far as I know, the second interaction, higher level was definitely wrong.

123001:35:46SPEAKER_02Because of what he did, how he coerced the kid at the time, as far as I know, it was very, very wrong.

123101:36:00SPEAKER_03And I even got... What is it?

123201:36:05SPEAKER_02We even got international police to try and get involved.

123301:36:14SPEAKER_02We tried.

123401:36:14SPEAKER_02Okay?

123501:36:17SPEAKER_02With that.

123601:36:18SPEAKER_02Nothing happened.

123701:36:20SPEAKER_06Nothing ended up happening.

123801:36:21SPEAKER_06That's great that you don't endorse that.

123901:36:26SPEAKER_06I didn't really see that from that...

124001:36:28SPEAKER_06text that you endorsed what happened it's more of the the the moral that's that that blaming blaming the kid was wrong that's what you're trying to say yeah allowing that situation and allowing that allowing that situation to happen in the first place as well allowing what situation what happened there

124101:37:01SPEAKER_02Like, which situation?

124201:37:03SPEAKER_02Like, when he got back into the server and did something?

124301:37:07SPEAKER_02Is that what you're saying?

124401:37:10SPEAKER_01Why did you allow Neo onto the server if you knew what he was doing?

124501:37:15SPEAKER_01He wasn't doing that at the time.

124601:37:18SPEAKER_01You knew what type of person he was, what type of danger he was, what he did to Cyan, and you allowed him to go to a server where there's miners?

124701:37:34SPEAKER_02He wasn't doing that actively with anyone else.

124801:37:37SPEAKER_02It was only that kid.

124901:37:38SPEAKER_04And hid that information from the entire staff team on both servers.

125001:37:45SPEAKER_02And I understand.

125101:37:46SPEAKER_02I get it.

125201:37:46SPEAKER_06Okay.

125301:37:48SPEAKER_06You know, there's a staff team on both of these servers, but did you hide that information?

125401:37:56SPEAKER_02Did I hide the information?

125501:37:58SPEAKER_06Did you not let that be known, that this person was privy to...

125601:38:04SPEAKER_03liking him young?

125701:38:10SPEAKER_06He's not privy to... Well, if he's being tempted by a 12-year-old, I would say that he's privy.

125801:38:20SPEAKER_05At the time, he was 21, by the way.

125901:38:22SPEAKER_06And at the time, wasn't he 21?

126001:38:23SPEAKER_06No.

126101:38:23SPEAKER_04I think he was like 19 or something, but he was mentally ill.

126201:38:33SPEAKER_04He was known to be going after people.

126301:38:34SPEAKER_04He was known, even at that point, to be faking his faith to get to people.

126401:38:39SPEAKER_02I've already dealt with this.

126501:38:41SPEAKER_02I said I was wrong for letting him into the server.

126601:38:45SPEAKER_03All of these things.

126701:38:51SPEAKER_03That's true.

126801:38:51SPEAKER_03And if I find out about these things, I alert people now.

126901:39:05SPEAKER_05Let's still ask the question, does that disqualify you from teaching?

127001:39:12SPEAKER_06So knowing that, that's obviously the scandal I was talking about.

127101:39:17SPEAKER_06Knowing that, do you think that all of that that's going on, do you think that it's wise to continue teaching at this moment in your life?

127201:39:26SPEAKER_06On here.

127301:39:37SPEAKER_04Additionally, what sort of... What's the word?

127401:39:42SPEAKER_04You people holding him responsible.

127501:39:44SPEAKER_04What accountability does he have right now?

127601:39:47SPEAKER_06And what kind of accountability do you have right now for that?

127701:39:58SPEAKER_02Do you have any?

127801:40:01SPEAKER_02As far as I know, the staff...

127901:40:03SPEAKER_02I let people in...

128001:40:05SPEAKER_02on my situations when it comes to talking to people, when it comes to the staff that I talk to, that I work with, they've corrected me on a number of things at times.

128101:40:16SPEAKER_02You know, in reference to a different number of issues.

128201:40:23SPEAKER_02In reference to what happened with Higher Level, right?

128301:40:29SPEAKER_02Like, I was trying to help him.

128401:40:32SPEAKER_02We decided to...

128501:40:37SPEAKER_02as a community, decided to just never let him into anything ever again, that he's a threat to everyone, that he's a pedophile, etc.

128601:40:52SPEAKER_04Because he's too dangerous for the online space.

128701:40:54SPEAKER_04There's no accountability for him.

128801:40:56SPEAKER_04That's why we told him.

128901:40:57SPEAKER_02These are years where you wouldn't expect that...

129001:41:04SPEAKER_06to be the place where you'd find a pedophile you'd find pedophiles at you know but do you see how the fact that that was able to happen that's just like there was no accountability there like what do you mean no accountability I was held accountable not the higher level like what about higher level

129101:41:33SPEAKER_04He was able to get away with it.

129201:41:35SPEAKER_04He was able to get away with it.

129301:41:36SPEAKER_04You can't stop him.

129401:41:39SPEAKER_02You can't stop him in the online space.

129501:41:40SPEAKER_02He was locked out of all the servers, of every community, all across the board.

129601:41:46SPEAKER_04But before then, he had free reign.

129701:41:48SPEAKER_04That's the point.

129801:41:49SPEAKER_04You can't hold him accountable in the online space.

129901:41:50SPEAKER_02He practically killed himself at one point.

130001:41:52SPEAKER_02He has multiple times where he attempted to end his life.

130101:41:56SPEAKER_02I can't talk that fast.

130201:41:58SPEAKER_02You do know someone else were fake.

130301:42:00SPEAKER_01I know, but I'm just trying to... How do you know they were fake?

130401:42:04SPEAKER_01Because I knew they were, he showed me.

130501:42:07SPEAKER_01Okay.

130601:42:08SPEAKER_01He admitted it.

130701:42:11SPEAKER_02Did he fake the one where he said that he was going to go kill himself when he said it to my face?

130801:42:15SPEAKER_02Did I say all?

130901:42:17SPEAKER_02I know, I'm asking you.

131001:42:20SPEAKER_02I actually kind of want to know that one, because that one really hurt.

131101:42:25SPEAKER_02But, if you don't know, then you don't know.

131201:42:29SPEAKER_04I'm not going to discredit that, you know, it's...

131301:42:31SPEAKER_02attempts were all cake, but he didn't use them as a manipulation.

131401:42:34SPEAKER_01I don't know about which one it was.

131501:42:37SPEAKER_02The one where, like, he... Like, he said... Like, I said some harsh things to him, and then he just went and tried to off himself.

131601:42:54SPEAKER_02I think that one was real, because Happy had to, like, call for... My old thing was...

131701:42:58SPEAKER_04He needs locked out of the online spaces, right?

131801:43:02SPEAKER_04Because we can't hold him accountable.

131901:43:04SPEAKER_04We can ban him, but then he can make all accounts and do all these other things, right?

132001:43:08SPEAKER_04That's why he shouldn't be allowed into these spaces.

132101:43:11SPEAKER_02So when we know his altar identified or whatever, we know someone like him.

132201:43:16SPEAKER_02No, I didn't help the miner.

132301:43:17SPEAKER_04We can't just let him exist.

132401:43:22SPEAKER_02I don't know how I would have helped the miner.

132501:43:27SPEAKER_06what happened was higher level was making all these alts and harassing uh cyan tabby and all these i felt like it was the right thing to do to remove him and and everybody knew results nobody wanted to do anything about it again i'm like a third party i don't have that that much association with what's going on we've never really talked before and i only know what i know right um

132601:43:58SPEAKER_06I think, you know, and I'll say it till I'm blue in the face.

132701:44:05SPEAKER_06I don't want to discourage you from following Christ.

132801:44:10SPEAKER_06And I don't like, and I see that you're distressed.

132901:44:18SPEAKER_06And I don't know your heart.

133001:44:19SPEAKER_06I don't know how truthful that is.

133101:44:21SPEAKER_06I don't know you.

133201:44:24SPEAKER_06But I see your heart to an extent.

133301:44:26SPEAKER_06And I don't want to fill you with, I don't like filling anybody with fear.

133401:44:34SPEAKER_06And I don't like that.

133501:44:36SPEAKER_06But I do care about righteousness.

133601:44:42SPEAKER_06And I do care about what's right.

133701:44:45SPEAKER_06And if that means getting uncomfortable with people for the sake of protecting those that are unable to protect themselves, I'm willing to do that.

133801:44:57SPEAKER_06And I don't know everything, but the main question that I'm leaving you with is in light of, and you don't have to answer this to me, this is between you and God at this point, I think, but in light of everything that's happening, you know, and I could give my opinion on it.

133901:45:23SPEAKER_06I don't think you should, but in light of everything that's happening,

134001:45:27SPEAKER_06Do you think that you're qualified to be teaching?

134101:45:30SPEAKER_06Do you think you're qualified to be putting yourself in that position still?

134201:45:34SPEAKER_06And that might be something that you need to start thinking about.

134301:45:46SPEAKER_03And I know that can be discouraging, but...

134401:45:59SPEAKER_06But, I mean, there's a responsibility that comes with teaching.

134501:46:06SPEAKER_03I agree.

134601:46:07SPEAKER_03Yeah.

134701:46:08SPEAKER_03So... Yeah.

134801:46:15SPEAKER_03That's mostly my MO.

134901:46:19SPEAKER_03Okay, well...

135001:46:22SPEAKER_02I'm...

135101:46:24SPEAKER_02I'm not gonna go anywhere...

135201:46:28SPEAKER_02um if this is all about don't post videos on youtube and that's what you mean by that if that means don't host events at metanoia fine i don't care i don't know what that looks like for you because i don't i don't really know you all that well i don't know what that looks like for you but i know whatever you think that means do you think that you're qualified in doing that still

135301:46:55SPEAKER_06that's the question and that's not an i'm not looking for the right answer from you like i don't don't give me the answer that you think i want to hear i want that's between you and god so you don't have to tell me what that looks like for you it's more of that question of like is that what you're qualified to be doing right now then yes

135401:47:24SPEAKER_00Have you received any invite requests from Ryan and I?

135501:47:30SPEAKER_02Recently?

135601:47:32SPEAKER_00Yeah, like, in this instance.

135701:47:34SPEAKER_00Is this over?

135801:47:34SPEAKER_00I received a request and I'm not sure if to let him in or not.

135901:47:36SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it's over.

136001:47:39SPEAKER_02Yeah, don't let him in.

136101:47:41SPEAKER_02Hey, Dan.

136201:47:42SPEAKER_06We're gonna head out.

136301:47:45SPEAKER_06We're gonna head out.

136401:47:48SPEAKER_06I do, like, as a Christian, it's just mercy and love, dude.

136501:47:53SPEAKER_06Christ died for our sins.

136601:47:55SPEAKER_06He rose from the dead.

136701:47:55SPEAKER_06That's the most important thing.

136801:47:58SPEAKER_06And so even in spite of everything that's happening, I'm not aware of everything that's happening.

136901:48:05SPEAKER_06I'm still extending you mercy and love.

137001:48:09SPEAKER_06Don't let this completely discourage you in your walk.

137101:48:13SPEAKER_06And it can be challenging, but allow this to allow, allow this to maybe like, I don't know what God is trying to do here.

137201:48:23SPEAKER_06I don't know.

137301:48:23SPEAKER_06Maybe it's bogus.

137401:48:24SPEAKER_06I don't know.

137501:48:25SPEAKER_06But if you feel like God is challenging you, don't shy away from that.

137601:48:35SPEAKER_06Like lean into that.

137701:48:37SPEAKER_06And I'll be straightforward.

137801:48:40SPEAKER_06I'm not perfect either.

137901:48:42SPEAKER_06I've made mistakes too.

138001:48:44SPEAKER_06And so I'm not coming here with a hoity-toity sort of I'm better than you attitude.

138101:48:52SPEAKER_06I'm just one guy.

138201:48:54SPEAKER_06And so I just, I'm offering, I'm extending that to you that there is mercy and there is grace.

138301:49:00SPEAKER_06And my, my, my heart, my heart, it's not like, I don't like doing this.

138401:49:07SPEAKER_06Like I'm not like giddy to, to put anybody in a position like this, but it's, I believe that it's biblical.

138501:49:16SPEAKER_02And so if I were to describe what's happening,

138601:49:24SPEAKER_02A guy tries to stop somebody from jumping off a bridge, fails to stop them from jumping off the bridge, and then is blamed for the man jumping off the bridge.

138701:49:37SPEAKER_05I gave him a step later so he could jump off the bridge better.

138801:49:45SPEAKER_06I don't really know what that means, but okay.

138901:49:50SPEAKER_06Again?

139001:49:52SPEAKER_06I'm just, I'm just looking to protect people from, I'm just looking to protect people from false teaching.

139101:49:59SPEAKER_06And I'm looking to protect people from, um, stuff like that.

139201:50:04SPEAKER_06I'm looking to protect kids from stuff like that.

139301:50:07SPEAKER_06And I believe, okay, well, some, you know, and again, I don't know all the information.

139401:50:15SPEAKER_06I think we've talked about this enough, right?

139501:50:18SPEAKER_06Like I've said what I needed to say.

139601:50:20SPEAKER_06I've,

139701:50:20SPEAKER_06I've left the impression that I needed to leave.

139801:50:23SPEAKER_02Do you know...

139901:50:26SPEAKER_02I know...

140001:50:29SPEAKER_02The guy that I tried to stop is doing what he does still.

140101:50:37SPEAKER_02You know who I'm talking about.

140201:50:41SPEAKER_04It's true.

140301:50:42SPEAKER_02And we're targeting me.

140401:50:44SPEAKER_04Until a month ago.

140501:50:47SPEAKER_02I'm not saying I'm exempt.

140601:50:49SPEAKER_02But I'm just saying...

140701:50:51SPEAKER_02There is a bigger problem.

140801:50:57SPEAKER_02And we know who he is.

140901:51:00SPEAKER_03But we want to target what happened then.

141001:51:03SPEAKER_03That I made a mistake.

141101:51:06SPEAKER_03I was wrong.

141201:51:07SPEAKER_02I carry that.

141301:51:11SPEAKER_02It hurts.

141401:51:13SPEAKER_02I'm never gonna sit there and say everything I did there was perfect.

141501:51:17SPEAKER_02I'm never gonna do it.

141601:51:20SPEAKER_06And here's the thing, if you realize that, dude, you're forgiven.

141701:51:25SPEAKER_06I'm not going to withhold that from you.

141801:51:28SPEAKER_06It wasn't done to me, but at least between you and me, if that's really where your heart is, you're forgiven.

141901:51:37SPEAKER_06But that doesn't mean that just because you're forgiven, you won't face the consequences of your actions.

142001:51:45SPEAKER_02I've faced those consequences time and time again at this point.

142101:51:49SPEAKER_02What other consequence is there?

142201:51:51SPEAKER_06I don't know.

142301:51:52SPEAKER_06I'm just saying that this conversation could just be one.

142401:51:58SPEAKER_06Right?

142501:52:00SPEAKER_06That's fair.

142601:52:02SPEAKER_06Some extra preliminary stuff that has been caused by this.

142701:52:09SPEAKER_06Yeah.

142801:52:10SPEAKER_02It's a ripple effect of wrong actions.

142901:52:13SPEAKER_06It's a ripple effect.

143001:52:14SPEAKER_06I get it.

143101:52:15SPEAKER_06And, you know...

143201:52:20SPEAKER_06you know, I have, you know, they, I think they wanted me to talk to you because, you know, I do have biblical knowledge and, um, I know how to talk to people.

143301:52:32SPEAKER_06I know how to get information out of people.

143401:52:34SPEAKER_06I share the gospel all the time.

143501:52:36SPEAKER_06And so, but I also understand that we all need grace.

143601:52:40SPEAKER_06We all need mercy.

143701:52:41SPEAKER_06And that it's, so I'm a third party.

143801:52:43SPEAKER_02So I'm not, so a lot of what you're saying to me, I'm, yeah.

143901:52:46SPEAKER_02Yeah.

144001:52:47SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's more or less newer information for you.

144101:52:51SPEAKER_06For me, yep, yeah.

144201:52:53SPEAKER_06I'm just here trying to do the right thing.

144301:52:55SPEAKER_06And generally speaking, kind of, keep a neutral ground.

144401:52:59SPEAKER_06But I have read some of the DMs.

144501:53:02SPEAKER_06I do know a little bit of the background.

144601:53:04SPEAKER_06So I can't lie and be like, I'm completely unbiased in the situation.

144701:53:08SPEAKER_06I'm really not, to a certain extent.

144801:53:11SPEAKER_06Yeah.

144901:53:11SPEAKER_06but you know, I'm still again, extending grace and forgiveness.

145001:53:15SPEAKER_06Like if that's really where your heart is, you're like, damn, I made a mistake.

145101:53:18SPEAKER_06That sucks.

145201:53:19SPEAKER_06I blew it.

145301:53:20SPEAKER_06You're forgiven.

145401:53:21SPEAKER_06I'm not going to withhold that from you.

145501:53:22SPEAKER_06That would be wicked of me to do.

145601:53:25SPEAKER_06Um, um, but, but my question is still there, right?

145701:53:33SPEAKER_06Is because of that, but even though like, yeah, um,

145801:53:37SPEAKER_06you're forgiven.

145901:53:37SPEAKER_06You're not disqualified from being a Christian.

146001:53:39SPEAKER_06You're not disqualified from following Christ and having a relationship, a beautiful relationship with Christ.

146101:53:45SPEAKER_06But is God, do you think God, in spite of what's going on, is, is that what he's calling you to do right now?

146201:53:51SPEAKER_06Or maybe, maybe is it a, I need to take a break or maybe you feel like you're totally justified.

146301:53:57SPEAKER_06Like it's, it's not, I'm not looking for that answer.

146401:54:02SPEAKER_06I'm just putting that pebble in your shoe to kind of,

146501:54:07SPEAKER_06feel until it's uncomfortable enough that you want to take it out so that's between you and god right my hope is oh boy this is two hour long video already yeah like

146601:54:37SPEAKER_02There's people on both sides of this whole situation and see it differently in different ways.

146701:54:45SPEAKER_03I don't know.

146801:54:57SPEAKER_03Can I pray for him?

146901:55:00SPEAKER_02I don't know exactly, but... Guys, can I pray for him?

147001:55:05SPEAKER_06Should I pray for him?

147101:55:10SPEAKER_02I will continue loving people, sharing the gospel, praying for people, doing all of those things.

147201:55:20SPEAKER_06Can I pray for you right now?

147301:55:22SPEAKER_06And then we're going to leave.

147401:55:23SPEAKER_06Can I pray for you?

147501:55:25SPEAKER_06Sure.

147601:55:28SPEAKER_06Dear Heavenly Father, Lord God,

147701:55:34SPEAKER_06I'm not too sure what you're doing in this situation.

147801:55:39SPEAKER_06I'm not too knowledgeable about what's going on.

147901:55:42SPEAKER_06But Lord, I care about your gospel and what you're doing in Dan's life and in my life.

148001:55:48SPEAKER_06Lord, I just pray that your will will be done.

148101:55:51SPEAKER_06Lord, I pray that whatever is going on, that everything gets resolved and people are safe and...

148201:55:59SPEAKER_06Dan is where he needs to be in his walk with you, where you want him, whether that's teaching online or not, and vice versa, me as well.

148301:56:10SPEAKER_06And anybody that me or Dan come into contact with, Lord, I pray that only what's true is said.

148401:56:19SPEAKER_06Lord, I pray that only what's true is remembered.

148501:56:22SPEAKER_06God, I pray that you ease some of Dan's nerves and remind him that

148601:56:29SPEAKER_06Your grace and mercy is still there, even if we make mistakes.

148701:56:33SPEAKER_06We make mistakes all the time, whether they're big or small.

148801:56:36SPEAKER_06And yes, we know that on earth, that doesn't mean that we're exempt from the consequences of that.

148901:56:42SPEAKER_06And Lord, but I just pray that Dan knows that if his full trust is in you, that you're deeply in love with him.

149001:56:52SPEAKER_06And that these things that happen are just a part of our walk.

149101:56:59SPEAKER_06a part of our journey to grow us and teach us.

149201:57:04SPEAKER_06Lord, it says in your word that you, what the enemy meant for evil, you will mean for good.

149301:57:11SPEAKER_06You will turn it to good.

149401:57:12SPEAKER_06And so we trust in your promise, God, that whatever happens, ultimately it's for your good.

149501:57:18SPEAKER_06So God, I leave this situation in this conversation that we've had in your hands.

149601:57:22SPEAKER_06Forgive me for not being upfront with him in the beginning of my agenda and my intentions with him.

149701:57:30SPEAKER_06I didn't know what I was stepping into.

149801:57:31SPEAKER_06And so, Lord, I admit my fault to you here and now.

149901:57:36SPEAKER_06I don't want to deceive anybody.

150001:57:38SPEAKER_06And so forgive me, Lord.

150101:57:39SPEAKER_06And Dan, I pray that you forgive me too.

150201:57:44SPEAKER_06And in Jesus' name I pray.

150301:57:46SPEAKER_06Amen.

150401:57:48SPEAKER_03Amen.

150501:57:50SPEAKER_06Amen.

150601:57:55SPEAKER_02And I do forgive you.

150701:57:57SPEAKER_02Thank you.

150801:57:59SPEAKER_02All of this is difficult for me just because of all the history I have with everyone.

150901:58:07SPEAKER_02I've helped all these people in different ways.

151001:58:12SPEAKER_03I make one error.

151101:58:23SPEAKER_01Very far from one error.

151201:58:25SPEAKER_03A year?

151301:58:25SPEAKER_03It's a year.

151401:58:30SPEAKER_03I don't know.

151501:58:31SPEAKER_06It's been a while.

151601:58:33SPEAKER_04Six months.

151701:58:34SPEAKER_06Again, this is, you know, I get it.

151801:58:40SPEAKER_06I think the conversation is at its end.

151901:58:44SPEAKER_06We've made our peace.

152001:58:48SPEAKER_06Try not to, you know, obviously there is that pebble in your shoe now, that question, right?

152101:58:55SPEAKER_06Whether that's something you're going to pursue or ignore, but that's there.

152201:59:00SPEAKER_06there's that question there for you of, is this something that God is calling me to do?

152301:59:04SPEAKER_06I don't know.

152401:59:05SPEAKER_06Um, I've done what I needed, what I felt like I needed to do.

152501:59:10SPEAKER_06Um, and I've given it to God.

152601:59:13SPEAKER_06Um, I forgive you.

152701:59:15SPEAKER_06You've forgiven me.

152801:59:17SPEAKER_06And ultimately, uh, I just want God to be glorified.

152901:59:23SPEAKER_06And, um, just as like, I, I'm also afraid of doing something wrong.

153001:59:30SPEAKER_06And so I don't want to do something wrong in this situation and discourage you from whatever that is.

153101:59:35SPEAKER_06But I also don't want to enable something that could lead to hurt.

153201:59:43SPEAKER_06That's what I'm on.

153301:59:44SPEAKER_06And so I don't know.

153401:59:46SPEAKER_06I don't know.

153501:59:48SPEAKER_06I don't think that like a lot of what you said, I agree with when it comes to Jesus dying for our sins.

153601:59:53SPEAKER_06It's faith in Christ alone.

153701:59:55SPEAKER_06Yeah.

153801:59:56SPEAKER_06And so I have no reason to think that you don't.

153902:00:00SPEAKER_06necessarily trust in the gospel of course I don't know your heart but I I don't see any issues there I think there would be a bigger issue if you're if you weren't holding to um the core tenets of the gospel the trinity Jesus's death and resurrection not by works faith alone in Christ and so yeah that's all I have to say and I hope you have a

154002:00:30SPEAKER_06decent night i know that this probably was really uncomfortable a two-hour conversation of and i know that's not comfortable being being grilled um but yeah but it's uh it's uh par for the course for the last week and a half or so yeah well hopefully out of all of the conversations that you've had all of the ripple effect consequences hopefully this one wasn't this one had a little bit more of

154102:00:59SPEAKER_06Grace involved in it.

154202:01:02SPEAKER_06Honestly, yes.

154302:01:04SPEAKER_06This is probably the best one.

154402:01:05SPEAKER_06Okay.

154502:01:07SPEAKER_06Well, I've done my job, so I'll be seeing you around, Dan.

154602:01:15SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.

154702:01:18All right.

154802:01:24SPEAKER_03Fuck.

154902:01:25SPEAKER_06Sorry.

155002:01:25SPEAKER_03You're good, Dan.

155102:01:31SPEAKER_04I do kind of feel bad for Dan.